Small heat treat or ceramic oven and toolpost grinder

Help Support HMEM:

Brian Rupnow

Design Engineer
Project of the Month Winner
Joined
May 23, 2008
Messages
13,017
Reaction score
5,819
Location
Barrie, Ontario, Canada
In my continuing quest of making my own piston rings, I need to buy two things----A small heat treat furnace or ceramic oven and a toolpost grinder. The heat treat oven can be very small, about 6 cubic inches would work for anything I need. the Toolpost grinder should fit a lathe with an AXA quick change toolpost. There is an interesting add for "Blackeagle toolpost grinders for AXA toolposts for about $250 USA dollars. It looks like it would work for me. My total working budget is only about $600 Canadian to buy both items. I would certainly buy "Used" as long as what I bought worked okay. If you have either item to sell, or know of someone who does, please email me at brupnow@rogers.com.
 

Gordon

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2011
Messages
868
Reaction score
139
I got a used ceramic kiln on craigslist for under $100. I ended up putting some new controls on it but that was under $50

I have no experience with this but I ran across this the other day.

Several people have also built their own TP grinder.

 

Poppy Ott

Active Member
HMEM Supporter
Joined
Feb 20, 2019
Messages
29
Reaction score
13
Location
Corinth, Mississippi
My heat treatment oven is a discarded dental ceramic oven. I came by mine by being a dentist, and this one was discarded because someone (not me, before my time) used it to melt silver for casting some none dental, after hours thing. Silver contaminates the oven muffle and when it is then used for porcelain the porcelain comes out green. It works just fine for heat treating steel. Anyway, that’s not the point. The point is periodically these things get changed out and you might find one for next to nothing from a dentist, or more likely a dental lab. Also, just like manual lathes being gradually abandoned by commercial shops and replaced with CNC machines, CNC is invading dental labs and ceramic ovens are going out of use, which makes you chances of landing one even better.
 

Brian Rupnow

Design Engineer
Project of the Month Winner
Joined
May 23, 2008
Messages
13,017
Reaction score
5,819
Location
Barrie, Ontario, Canada
The world moves very quickly---I just ordered a toolpost grinder and diamond dresser from Little Machine Shop in USA. It isn't a toolpost grinder even though that's what they call it. It mounts to the topslide.
 

Brian Rupnow

Design Engineer
Project of the Month Winner
Joined
May 23, 2008
Messages
13,017
Reaction score
5,819
Location
Barrie, Ontario, Canada
I've just posted an add on my local buy and sell newspaper looking for a small, electric heat treat oven or ceramics oven 110volt or 220 volt. If you are in Ontario, Canada and have a used one to sell, please contact me.----Brian
 

Brian Rupnow

Design Engineer
Project of the Month Winner
Joined
May 23, 2008
Messages
13,017
Reaction score
5,819
Location
Barrie, Ontario, Canada
I got a call this morning from a guy about 25 miles away who said that he had just what I wanted in a heat treat oven.---I drove up to Midland, and when I got there he was all pie faced---his son had taken the heat treat furnace and was using it in his shop. Oh well, it got me out of the house for a drive anyways.
 

MikeG

Member
HMEM Supporter
Joined
Jul 26, 2007
Messages
23
Reaction score
5
Location
Colorado Springs, Colorado
Brian
I'm enjoying following your build. I have a question, why do you need a TPG for making rings?
I've made quite a few CI rings for my engines using the Trimble method....Turn/bore/part off/heat in oven 1100 or so degrees F./ cool overnight/clean scale if needed/dimension to fit piston groove/split/check and adjust gap (.004)/install on piston. I've never needed a TPG. Perhaps I've missed something??? Again I enjoy your posts!!!

MikeG
 

Brian Rupnow

Design Engineer
Project of the Month Winner
Joined
May 23, 2008
Messages
13,017
Reaction score
5,819
Location
Barrie, Ontario, Canada
Mike--If I do make rings according to the Chaddock method, he recommends a final "clean up" pass on the o.d. of the rings mounted on a fixture to ensure that they are perfectly round. This final clean up pass is only 0.001". I don't totally trust my lathe on that fine of depth of cut. Sounds like it would be a perfect job for a toolpost grinder. (I've wanted a toolpost grinder for a few years now, but never had a good excuse to buy one.)
 

Gordon

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2011
Messages
868
Reaction score
139
Mike--If I do make rings according to the Chaddock method, he recommends a final "clean up" pass on the o.d. of the rings mounted on a fixture to ensure that they are perfectly round. This final clean up pass is only 0.001". I don't totally trust my lathe on that fine of depth of cut. Sounds like it would be a perfect job for a toolpost grinder. (I've wanted a toolpost grinder for a few years now, but never had a good excuse to buy one.)
I have wondered on that method why just .001. Why not make it a deeper cut like.005 or even .010? It requires a super sharp tool to just cut .001.
 

Brian Rupnow

Design Engineer
Project of the Month Winner
Joined
May 23, 2008
Messages
13,017
Reaction score
5,819
Location
Barrie, Ontario, Canada
Gordon--I wondered about that too. If you knew that you were going to take that last "truing" cut why wouldn't you make the ring 0.010" over in the first place.
 

SmithDoor

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2009
Messages
895
Reaction score
125
Location
Clovis Ca
Use the compound for fine feed.
Put compound at about 10 degrees

Dave

Gordon--I wondered about that too. If you knew that you were going to take that last "truing" cut why wouldn't you make the ring 0.010" over in the first place.
 

SmithDoor

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2009
Messages
895
Reaction score
125
Location
Clovis Ca
You also use a dial indicator

Dave
 

IC-man

Member
Joined
Jun 22, 2014
Messages
23
Reaction score
0
Brian
I'm enjoying following your build. I have a question, why do you need a TPG for making rings?
I've made quite a few CI rings for my engines using the Trimble method....Turn/bore/part off/heat in oven 1100 or so degrees F./ cool overnight/clean scale if needed/dimension to fit piston groove/split/check and adjust gap (.004)/install on piston. I've never needed a TPG. Perhaps I've missed something??? Again I enjoy your posts!!!

MikeG
 

IC-man

Member
Joined
Jun 22, 2014
Messages
23
Reaction score
0
Hi Mike that's the method I use.
I've used this Trimble method on Westburys Sea lion, Kiwi several Nemett 15's plus a few others. To cleave the ring I just grip the ring with 2 pairs of flat nose pliers (close together) and tweek.
I 've made maybe 50 rings this way.
And by the way all the engines run.
Graham
 

Brian Rupnow

Design Engineer
Project of the Month Winner
Joined
May 23, 2008
Messages
13,017
Reaction score
5,819
Location
Barrie, Ontario, Canada
No luck so far in my search for a small heat treat oven. I would have thought that with the number of small manufacturers and machine shops that we have lost over the last ten years that a small heat treat oven would be easy to find at a reasonable cost, but it doesn't seem to be happening.
 

Brian Rupnow

Design Engineer
Project of the Month Winner
Joined
May 23, 2008
Messages
13,017
Reaction score
5,819
Location
Barrie, Ontario, Canada
Whoops!!!---Just got a call from a town not far away and a guy has a dental crucible with an interior heat cavity about 4" x 3" x 3". The price is right and the temperature goes high enough for what I need.---now I'm excited!!
 

Gordon

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2011
Messages
868
Reaction score
139
No luck so far in my search for a small heat treat oven. I would have thought that with the number of small manufacturers and machine shops that we have lost over the last ten years that a small heat treat oven would be easy to find at a reasonable cost, but it doesn't seem to be happening.
An industrial heat treat oven is a different animal and much more expensive than a hobby ceramic kiln. Most of the industrial heat treat furnaces that I have seen are gas fired. With everyone staying home a lot of folks have taken up new hobbies and ceramics are probably one of the new hobbies. Also even if they have been doing ceramics the shop where you had them fired has limited access.
 

L98fiero

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 18, 2013
Messages
174
Reaction score
75
Location
Keswick, Ontario
An industrial heat treat oven is a different animal and much more expensive than a hobby ceramic kiln. Most of the industrial heat treat furnaces that I have seen are gas fired. With everyone staying home a lot of folks have taken up new hobbies and ceramics are probably one of the new hobbies. Also even if they have been doing ceramics the shop where you had them fired has limited access.
A few yeas ago I bought a heat treat oven for $175, weighed about 400 pounds, the seller loaded it on my pickup with a home built front end loader on his tractor, dropped it twice before getting it on the truck. In the end he said forget about the $175 but it still worked when a new control was installed for $50.
 

Latest posts

Top