simple question on boiler

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cessna

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Hi, I have just started my first steam build (steam donkey) the pictures and plans show three taps or spigots, one above the other beside the glass water indicator. What are these for and are they necessary except for looks?
Thanks
Terry
 
Terry,
Those are test cocks to check for the water level. They can be used to check for the water level if the gauge glass fails in service.

Dan
 
You can also use the cocks to blow steam through the glass, this removes any scum that may build up and cause a false reading. With a cheaper single cock setup you can get all the flow comming from the bottom bush and not through the glass so it does not get cleaned.

Jason
 
Hi Terry

Your description of exactly where the cocks are located is a bit vague - are the cocks part of the gauge glass plumbing ? - as in one cock at the top of - , and two at the bottom of the gauge glass mountings?

Or are they completely separate and mounted beside the gauge glass, but actually directly to the boiler?

I'm by no means an expert on boilers - but from my research, it is common, and preferable, to add three cocks to the gauge glass plumbing. This serves the purposes that Dan and Jason mentioned, as well as allowing you to isolate steam from the gauge glass in case it breaks.

The top and "middle" valves in the setup I'm referring to allows you to isolate the glass section, in other words you can continue operating the boiler even if the glass is broken.
By closing the "middle" valve, and leaving the top one open, and then opening the bottom one, you can clean foam/bubbles/gunk from the glass itself - in effect cleaning the gauge glass.
The bottom valve is usually used as a blow-down valve as well.

While in normal operation (when using the gauge glass for measuring the water level), a quick open-and-close of the bottom valve is used to make sure you get a true water level reading in the glass. Especially on thinner diameter gauge glasses it's very easy to get a false reading of water level - I have had this problem on my little O-gauge locomotive's boiler - which is not fitted with any of the cocks.

If the cocks are fitted straight to the boiler and not connected to the gauge glass plumbing, then their only function would be to check water level directly; bottom one for minimum level (if it steams, add water) middle one as an intermediate check, and top one for "full" - if it releases water, the boiler is full, or too full.

Regards, Arnold
 
I'm having trouble visualizing this as well, the one in the middle could be for a scum blowdown but not common on model boilers. If a gauge glass fails then you will get steam from both the water and steam connections to the boiler, in no way can you tell the level of water in the drum by opening anything to atmosphere.

If you really must keep operating without a gauge glass, (bloody dangerous), then one way of telling the level in the boiler is to chalk the surface of the drum the difference between the steam and water will discolour the chalk and give a very rough indication of the level.

NOT RECOMMENDED IN ANY BUT THE MOST DIRE CIRCUMSTANCES (such as 1/2 way between OZ and the US in a steam powered aircraft with only one boiler, one gauge glass and no spare glass)

Hope this helps

Best Regards
Bob
 
I should have said that they were for emergency operation but I did say they were for checking the water level when the water glass has failed. To me that is the very definition of a boiler EMERGENCY.

Yes you have to be in a bad place to need test cocks and for a hobby boiler it is time to shut down the operation when you have a gauge glass failure.

I have asked several full scale steam locomotive engineers if they have ever used the test cocks and can you tell water from steam at boiler pressure and only one said yes they will work but you have to be a masochist to use them.


Dan
 
They are also called try cocks here is a link to model cocks which states the use of the usually three cocks found on historic boilers.

http://www.americanmodeleng.com/id29.html

Bob, I know that they are no longer used on boilers and the thought of having to use then makes me cringe. It will not be easy to tell water from steam in my opinion also, but I was just at a steam up and saw a boiler with the fire dropped blown down from the mud ring there was a difference in the sound when the water was gone and just steam was comming out. I think the try cocks could be used the same way but not with out a bit of practice.

Dan
 
Thanks for all the info guys, yes the donkey is the one you show jasonb, I think for my use they would be redundant as I would not operate with a broken glass although they do add to the looks.
Terry
 
Dan,

I guess I'm too young ::) to have had experience with try cocks and IMHO they may work at lower pressures where the difference between steam and water is not all that great but at higher pressures I doubt their efficacy, ( Perhaps that's why they're not fitted any more).

I agree there is a different sound when blowing down a gauge glass between the steam and water blows but what the one in the middle may tell you ??? ??? ???

Thanks for adding more to my knowledge base. :bow:

Best Regards
Bob
 
.... in no way can you tell the level of water in the drum by opening anything to atmosphere.
:bow: Thanks Bob - I should have thought further - if the boiler is in operation and one opens a cock that is below water level, of course the "water" coming out of it will instantly convert to steam !

I had a look at the picture on the camdenmin site; and the three cocks mounted directly to the boiler body would be impractical considering the above. The only time they would be of use is while filling when the boiler is cold.

It does appear from the picture that there is a "proper" blowdown valve installed as part of the gauge glass plumbing where one would expect it.

Regards, Arnold
 
Arnold,
What Bob said is true for modern boilers. Only a complete idiot would open a 1000 PSI boiler to the atmosphere. This is the range of pressure found on modern merchant and Navy ships.

Historic boilers like the one in this thread mostly worked between 100 and 200 PSI. These are two very distinct different worlds.

Another name for the cocks is tri cocks and here is a web hit for that phrase which describes how and why to use tri cocks.
http://www.steam-tractors.com/tri-cock.htm

Dan
 
Thanks Dan - I have a lot to learn about boilers and steam behaviour at different pressures!

Terry, apologies for the hijack on your thread :-[

Kind regards, Arnold
 
Arnold,
I do not think you hijacked the thread at all, try cocks are boiler test instruments and their use should be understood and when they should be fitted.

I did not have an answer to the last part until now. I found the answer in the rules I worked under as an engineer, which as I have recently found out is mostly rubber stamped ASME boiler code.

(e) Gage cocks. (Modifies PG60.4.) (1) When the steam pressure does not exceed 250 pounds per square inch, three test cocks attached directly to the head or shell of a boiler may serve as the secondary water level indicator.

Read more: http://cfr.vlex.com/vid/01-columns-gauge-cocks-gauges-19848428#ixzz17duo40T5

Dan
 
Dan, you are certainly on the right track, and I will see if I can shed a bit more light on the subject, just for clarification, if nothing else. I've been a full size engineer in a stationary plant for about 15 years.

ASME code in the USA requires two ways to check the water level in all boilers of more than 10 square feet of heating surface. The number cited here is from my memory and may not be entirely correct, but I did not take the time to look it up, as in most cases it doesn't really matter for the small machines we build. Now, (as mentioned before) in boilers of less than 250 PSI, try cocks can be used as the second method instead of fitting a second sight glass to the unit. In higher pressure units, two sight glasses are required. New full size boilers of less than 250 PSI are still fitted with try cocks if a second water glass is not specified by the customer.

The use of try cocks is much simpler than you might expect, and you certainly do not just wheel one open. Placement of the cocks are as follows:
The top cock is mounted to the shell at such height that it should always have steam issuing from it when opened.
The middle cock is mounted at the desired water level, and should issue a mix of steam and water when opened.
The bottom cock is mounted at the lowest permissible water level, typically two inches or more above the highest point of the crown sheet, it should always issue water when opened.

In practice, one opens the bottom cock first, and just barely cracks it open. Water drops will issue from the cock if the water level is high enough. Once the operating engineer has satisfied himself that he has sufficient water in the boiler for continued operation, he can try the middle cock, which when cracked will issue water droplets but will also give some "sizzle" as steam escapes. Ideally, you should get very wet steam, or a better description would be a mixture of steam and water. The top cock is tried last, to make sure that the water level is not too high, and when cracked it will give steam immediately if the water level is correct.

The assumption that water escaping from any of the try cocks will instantly flash into steam is not entirely correct, but reading the cocks does take a little bit of practice and in full size practice they need to be tried regularly simply to be sure that they are not sealed shut by mineral scale or mud. They are not used at pressures above 250 PSI because at elevated pressures it does become more difficult, and eventually impossible to tell what is issuing from the cocks, as water will flash into steam at those pressures, even if only cracking the cocks open.

Do I have a personal preference in the cocks vs. no cocks question? No, not really. I will admit that having two sight glasses mounted to two separately plumbed water columns is preferred, but trying the cocks on a regular basis keeps me in touch with "the old days" too.
 

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