Róbert Esnault Pelterie engines

[GailInNM]

For the most part I have been out of the shop for the past several months because of medical problems. Things are looking up and I hope to start a new engine before fall. This means selecting a project engine. I am down to two at the moment.

One of these is a 5 cylinder "fan" or semi-radial engine to be a look alike for the 5 cylinder engine built by Róbert Esnault Pelterie. He built both 5 and 7 cylinder engines in this configuration in the 1907 to 1909 period. These engines were most often referred to by the designer/builders initials REP or R.E.P.

I am looking for any information on these engines and in particular information on the intake/exhaust valve system. I will probably dummy an atmospheric intake valve in but it would be nice to know a little bit more about the original. The following quote from:

http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1909/1909 - 0033.html

explains a little bit about them. The 7 cylinder drawing shows some details of the valve, but nothing I have been able to work out. Most of the drawings and photos I have found are of 7 cylinder versions, but the 5 cylinder versions are similar.

"Combined Valves.
Another expedient for reducing the weight, which
has been adopted by some makers, is the use of a valve
which combines the purposes of an induction-valve and
an exhaust-valve in one. Such a device is to be found
on the R.E.P. engine, and also on the Farcot, but it
cannot be said to have come into general practice as yet.
Those makers who have adopted the principle have done
so, of course, because they object to the atmospheric
valve, such as is used on the Antoinette and some other
engines, and also because they wish to effect the saving
of some of the parts involved in the operation of two
separate valves by mechanical means.
In the case of the R.E.P., the operation of the two
separate valves would be all the more complicated on
account of the arrangement of the cylinders, but the combined
valve enables a very neat design of operating
mechanism to be introduced. The Wright, J.A.P.,
E.N.V., and Renault engines have mechanically-operated
inlet and exhaust valves. The Gnome rotary engine has
an atmospheric valve in the piston, and a mechanicallyoperated
exhaust-valve in the centre of the cylinder head.
In several cases—the R.E.P. among them—the exhaust is
allowed to blow straight out into the air without even
passing through the shortest of pipes ; in the case of the
Gnome engine, the gases even impinge direct upon the
valve-operating rock-lever."

Thanks everyone.
Gail in NM

 

[steamer]

Hi Gail,

I was looking at the picture you provided, and was wondering if the valve pushed down for intake, and pulled up and moved the valve seat up in the process to release the exhaust gases out the cylindrically located ring of holes...The drawing shows little arrows as if trying to diagramatically show flow through these holes....additionally, if you look at the sectional drawing, compare the cylinder at the 10 oclock position with the one at the 2 oclock position, and it would appear that the valve seats are disposed at different axial positions. I am wondering if the valve seat is pulled up and opens the exhauset valve which is concentric with the intake valve.

Hope that makes sense.......HOPE YOUR FEELING BETTER TOO!


Dave

 

[tvoght]

Hi Gail,
I happened upon an old book (available online from a Google scan), called "Aero Engines" by George Arthur Burls. There are a couple of paragraphs on REP
engines, mostly comparing them to Anzani engines. The coverage of the Anzanis is somewhat more extensive.

The section eschews his earlier "fan type" engines (as you have pictured) and concentrates on his "current" radial engines. The Anzani fan types are described in more detail.

Hope this helps,
--TIm

 

[ShedBoy]

I am confused enough to be very interested

Brock

 

[Tin Falcon]

Aero engines: (1915

http://archive.org/details/aeroengineswith00burlgoog
textbook of aero engines (1920)

http://archive.org/details/textbookaeroeng00shergoog

General info may or may not help.
Tin

 

[Lew Hartswick]

Gail, That first pix of the engine surely has me confused as to the intake manifold.
Then on the second it doesn't show at all so it must all be on the front. ??????
...lew...

 

[GailInNM]

Thanks for the help everyone. Sorry for the delay in responding but I spent most of the day playing games with the eye doctor and things are just getting back to where I can see the computer again.

Dave: Thanks for the well wishes. I think your thoughts are in right direction. I know the ring of holes is for the exhaust and that there is no exhaust stack of any kind. Your push-pull rod is kind of confirmed by the description extracted from the link by Tim which I have attached to this post. Still trying to get my head around the valve action you described but I will read through it a few more times.

Tim: Thanks for the link. I had not come across that book. The section on the REP engines is just a little bit later than the REP engine that I am interested in, but it is before he went away from the combined valve. The discussion of the cam plate was most interesting and I attached to this post.

Brock: If we were not confused we would not be learning anything. That means that I must be learning a lot.

Tin: The first book you linked to is the same book that Tim was referring to. The second book did not have anything useful on the REP engines but has some useful information on another engine of that era that I am interested in. Thanks.

Lew: Sorry for the confusion. It is my fault. Because there are so few photos of the REP fan type engines I collected them from where I could. The three images in my first post are from 3 different sources and are probably of three different engines. And as the designs were evolving all the time I would guess that no two engines were actually alike. I should have mentioned that bit of information.

Thanks again everyone. l may not build this project but it looks more feasible all the time.

Gail in NM