Newall DRO on King 14x40 lathe

[petertha]

Here are some pics of my installation. I’m no expert by any stretch, but happy to answer any questions. Seems like these DRO retrofits arealways a series of tradeoffs & mine is no different. I might regret some decisions down the road, but I'll give it a go this way for now. Your comments also welcome!

So far the travels seem accurate but I haven’t played withit much yet. I'm just happy I didn’t have to rent some heavy lifting equipment to move the lathe away from the wall to get in from. I was able to reach in behind to do x-axis drilling &mounting with a few painful body contortions. The x-axis tube/encoder is Spherosyn. The y-axis & z (compound) are Microsyn 10.

I learned it's worthwhile making simple bar-steel jigs to drill & tap good straight holes in the cast iron. The only lathe assembly chunk I could easily remove was the compound block. Everythingelse was hand drilling in-situ which had me worrying at times. Some holes were just awkward & hard to get good pressure on with the drill & straight in with the tap. Some holes went great & others seemed like they hit the equivalent of fir tree knots. Must have been a melted down tire rim in there! Anyway, all the holes are straight &cleanly tapped. Count myself lucky this time.

 

[petertha]

Here is the X-axis. I made a few wood mockups till I got it right. I used the threaded holes reserved for taper attachment. If I ever modify my lathe to allow taper cutting capability (which I would like to eventually do) I'll have to re-think this. But I have seen some taper installations clamped onto the cross slide so maybe I will still have that option open.

The 2nd last picture shows how I aligned the tube. One jig set the vertical height referenced to the lathe bed. I had another similar jig (not shown) that set the tube horizontally registered to the lathe bed V. The end posts are adjustable & have their own clamp screw so you do them independantly. The aluminum encoder mount plate kind of floats free until the ends are positioned, it has slots in both diemsniosn to allow positioning. So basically it was a matter of working from either end, then fixing the plate in the middle. Last picture shows the aluminum guard in place.

 

[petertha]

Here is the Y-axis cross slide. Again, I poached the existing threaded holes intended for the travelling steady. I wrung my hands on this issue.

Pros: easier installation, putting it on the back side would cause me grief (awkward holes to drill, deeper level carriage dissasembly, interferes with existing carriage lock bolt & cross slide lock screw for gib.

Cons: DRO is on the less desirable chuck side, closer to work, shavings, fluid drips. Hopefully the chipguard & fluid-proof rating & supposed good warranty will work my way.

 

[petertha]

Here is the compound. Actually I debated whether to even buy it, but I decided to give it a go. If it all went well, thats one more set of blinkylights. Worst case if I didnt work out, the tube was the right size for my mill z axis, which still has a jerry rigged vernier.

I ordered the shortest tube based on 5"-ish travel. The documentation says its ok to have the tube anchored on one end only & unsupported on the other end cantilver style (only short tube lengths like this). After much head scratching, I arrived at this bar clamp design which & is attached by 2 drilled & tapped holes in the back of the compound block. The encoder is bolted to an aluminum block from the underside. Those same holes were convenient to mount the angle guard. I tried to match the dimensions carefully on these parts so everything would lineup as there isn't as much adjustment latitude here.

The only thing I dont like is the tube end sticks out a bit & no good compromise solution I could see. But its only on the most extended compound position (pictured). Still, I'm paranoid of catching it with my hand while turning the lead screw or bashing it with the tailstock if its aligned to the bed. But for the most part, it stays hidden under the guard so I'll just have to be careful. This guard travels with the compound.

 

[petertha]

I got thinking more about the loss of traveling steady. I might do this mod. Instead of attaching the x-axis encoder bracket to the cross slide with cap screw allen bolts as shown, maybe make 2 stud fasteners like sketched. They have threaded male ends to match existing casting holes. They have threaded holes on teh other end. Its made of hex stock so I can tighten the encoder plate down with it. But now the steady can be bolted into the studs instead of teh casting & the encoder can stay in place undisturbed? A future project.

 

[petertha]

Coming together.

 

[stevehuckss396]

Nice job! I was going to do the same thing but decided I'm going to CNC it instead.

 

[kvom]

FWIW, my y-axis Newall reader is installed on the right side of the saddle rather than the left, where it can potentially contact the chuck. OTOH, my lathe has a stop bolt in the saddle to prevent the tailstock from hitting the scale. Either way has pluses and minuses. Your install looks nice and clean. Good job.

 

[petertha]

Nice job! I was going to do the same thing but decided I'm going to CNC it instead.

Thanks, coming from you, that's considered a real compliment. Look forward to your cnc & other great projects.

I got my 5-cyl radial drawn up near completion till 'life' got in the way. But now I think the smart thing to do is harvest the key parts together & make a single cyl 'test' engine. Many components can be utilized in the single-cyl assembly, but it will need new crankcase & crankshaft etc. Maybe a small price to pay. Building a single will be more than enough to chew on. If bugs need fixing, well, better to deal with it early on vs. replicating on more cylinders & more complicated assembly.

 

[petertha]

FWIW, my y-axis Newall reader is installed on the right side of the saddle rather than the left, where it can potentially contact the chuck. OTOH, my lathe has a stop bolt in the saddle to prevent the tailstock from hitting the scale. Either way has pluses and minuses. Your install looks nice and clean. Good job.

Thats a good point I never considered. I can swing the DRO to the other side with the swing arm & just pivot the screen. It would be 2 ft or so to the right of the pic. I parked it closer just to see display & push buttons. But I messed up my wall one day with cutting spray, so yes, I can see that extending to the DRO.

That stop bolt sounds like a good idea. I wonder if I can put it on the tailstock side, just because its easier to remove to drill & tap vs getting access to the saddle casting? Do you have a picture?

 

[scrdmgl]

Hi Peter:

I'm in Toronto and so it happens that I'm planning to by a King Lathe just like yours. I read a report about a lathe seizing because was it was shipped without oil and other issues. First of all, even the manual for this or any machine recommends checking and filling up all oil levels where needed. However another more disturbing failure involved snapping the woodruff key used to secure the shaft connected to the brake where it should have been splinned to withstand the stress of stopping the spindle. Also he mentions oil seeping from the sight glass in the headstock. Given that you've been using your lathe for some time, would care to comment on these issues and any other area worth mentioning?. Also, is the current model the same as yours or it has changed?

Thanks

Jorge

 

[petertha]

Hi Jorge. Not sure I can help specifically but I'll try. Looks like this is the current 14x40 King lathe?
http://www.kingcanada.com/Products.htm?CD=116&ID=12037

Although the size is nominally the same, its a different machine than mine judging by the layout of the speed/gear selection & brake feature which mine does not have. I bought my King through Modern Tool in Calgary back in the day, probably they were King distributer then? I think my vintage was made in Taiwan then. Modern has their own line of lathes now & I suspect like most distributers, originates mainly from China. They say they 'control quality' & upgrade/specify with CSA rated motor/electrics, but I'm not 100% what that entails. Its probably the same business model as Grizzly etc. in the US because the machines all kind of look similar to my eye.

Shipping/freight wise you are closer to King, so I would grill them with these questions and for sure make the trip to closely examine the lathe beforehand. A few yeas back I was considering a trade-in with Modern because I regretted not getting a taper attachment & cost-wise it was actually a better deal to get DRO pre-installed. But their current (Chinese) 14x40 just seemed a step back in quality so I decided to keep mine.

Re oil issues, mine came pre-filled (by Modern who kind of checks it over prior to releasing to the customer). I know this with certainty because gear case oil was leaking out through the top cover plate when the lathe was angled moving down the stairs! I have not experienced any leaks ever in its horizontal running orientation. I've heard similar stories about the sight glass (gasket or lack thereof) on gear drive lathes & mills, not King specifically but Asian lathes.

I have not experienced the key failure issue you mention, I suspect that is related to the brake assembly? My lathe has a sacrificial shear pin in there somewhere, maybe on the carriage drive, but no issues. Maybe if you find the link & raise a separate post, the smart guys here on the forum could comment.

If you do decide on King, make sure & specify taper attachment beforehand or inquire about this to confirm if you want one. On my lathe I could not (easily) add on as a bolt-on accessory, it involved specific factory changes including crossfeed screw assembly bits. Overall I have been very happy with my King lathe, but I just don't know if that experience means much 15 years after the fact.

Modern Tool current offering
http://www.moderntool.com/products/modern-model-c0636a-x-1000-lathe/

Maybe King similarity to US distributer lathes?
http://www.grizzly.com/products/14-X-40-Gunsmith-s-Gearhead-Lathe/G0709

 

[Swifty]

Hi Jorge, I have a similar lathe and have had no trouble for the last 10 years with the key on the brake shaft. For those who have not had the opportunity to use a lathe with a foot brake, they are absolutely great, especially for threading.

Paul.

 

[scrdmgl]

Thank you Peter and Paul for your prompt response. As you must be aware, most of these machines are made by the same manufacturer with some differences in features, paint and appearance for worldwide distribution after re-branding. My main concern is with this particular model using keyed shafts as opposed to splined which is the obvious quality alternative. For us in Canada, we have many options to buy this King Canada lathe one of them being KBC Tools which I believe has a Vancouver branch. As far as prices go everybody is asking the same money with the same features and attachments $4,995. Another dealer in Toronto with branches in Edmonton and Calgary that sells a 14x40" with a 3HP!!!! 220 1PH and exactly the same features, is Busy Bee Tools. The price is higher but they offer a claimed "splined shaft machine" but no QCT and a 2 piece 3 jaw chuck as opposed to the 2 sets of jaws in the Canada King offer. Most of these machines as far as chucks is concerned, use the cheapest piece of garbage that they can find due to the fact that all chucks look alike until you work with them. People involved in precision work go for Buck, Bison or Fuerda Set-Thru replacements the latter being my favorite for price and quality despite being made in the Motherland (China) like all the rest of the stuff sold today.
I wish to point out to you in case that you ignore the situation, that even "big name brands" are being manufactured there, despite claims of US or European origin. Such fact that not detract their quality one single bit because China will produce articles and goods at ANY level if so you wish and are willing to pay for it. Knowing History like I do, it comes to no surprise to me because they are the oldest continuous civilization in history 4,500 years, and are planning a MANNED trip to fricking Mars of all places apparently on the grounds that the Moon is to close by or some other funny oriental reason.
Back to the King lathe, I like the very nice appearance better than the Busy Bee one, but I will not buy it if I learn for sure that they are not splined.

Cheers to you and Happy New Year

Jorge