Myford ML4 lead screw and feed

[JCSteam]

Hi,

Ive recently bought an ML4 lathe, been a machining novice ive just about got my head around what levers fo what ect.

However a couple of questions you might be able to answer for me.

1. Is it normal for the leadscrew handle not to be able to turn the leadscrew, when the change gears are engaged, or is this indicative that the headstock bearings are too tight? I can turn it and move the saddle, until I engage the first set of change gears, to the headstock, also theres a grinding on the first set of gears, this is with it just been turned by hand at the moment. My thinking is that its hearing up too high or the headstock spindle is too tight???

2. How can I tighten the backlash on the handles at the moment its at .0017thou on the topslide, and .0020 on the cross slide. Is this acceptable wear for a hobbiest??

3. Can I clean everything down with WD40 including the bedways? Ive already got some thick oil for the bedways.

Thanks in advance for any advice. They'll be more questions to come no doubt as I'm setting the lathe up

 

[bazmak]

answer to 1 is yes, no 2 is I am surprised you have less than 2 thou backlash
its not always a sign of wear and will always be there.If its less than 2 thou on an ML4 then I am surprised the slides are not locked tight
Answer to 3 is yes you can clean down with WD40 but I would use a light machine oil on the slideways.Heavy oil is not the best on a small lathe
Others may suggest differently,but that's the way life is

 

[JCSteam]

I think I've read the dials correctly, the 80 divisions on the lathe dials are split into 10 segments, my assumption was that reading between the 80 divisions gives you .0080 (one full turn of the dial) the increments between are .001, .0002, 0003 ect this is how I got the measurement of backlash, between winding clockwise and anticlockwise before the screw engaged. I have some good oil for the bedways

Another question while I think on, are the oil pots on top of the headstock screwed in, or a press fit? I want to replace these with some larger ones, as one of the pots is missing its lid. Can the old oil be flushed out by using WD40, (turning the spindle by hand). Then replaced with good oil, again turning by hand until its worked the WD40 out the bearings. Theres a lot of crud over the entire lathe, so want to get rid of anything that may cause damage, an have it all oiled up nicely before I even switch the lathe on

 

[bazmak]

Others with Ml4 experience are better equipped to comment.Oldboy springs to mind.Very experienced with Myford and always willing to help /comment
although he can go off on a tangent and you have to read into him
No offence Norm but think you can answer his questions just keep it simple

 

[goldstar31]

Jon

I stand to be corrected but I suspect that your lathe feed screws actually should be 78 and not 80. However allowing for inaccuracies in spot on threads and whatever, you have to settle for what comes up on the dials.

I'm recovering from a heavy bout of 'flu' but am trying to get an Italian sit on lawn mower to drive again- without a manual before the Triffids take over my lawns. I'm farting about with a dental mirror to try to find out where these bleeding fasteners are holding things from coming apart.

It's a bit like having sex standing up in a hammock- or so I'm told.

Sorry

Norm

 

[JCSteam]

Hi Norman,

The lead screw itself I'm sure will be 78, however I'm talking about the dials on the cross slide and the top slide. The dials are indexed into 80 divisions, this is how I came about the .0017thou, I thought the dial was divided into 80 divisions, so if you wanted to turn .0165 of a part, you would need to turn the handle through two complete revolutions plus five of the smaller indexed divisions, between 0 and 10. I hope I've explained myself better this time, and please let me know I'm right or wrong on this?? Or do I need to move my decimal place to the right by one???

 

[fcheslop]

That would take twice the amount off the part normally on a myford
The backlash doesnt matter unless you are winding the tool out of the job and back in to it. If it becomes a big issue just fit a couple of dial gauges to the cross slide then you can see whats going on.
Norm you just aint swearing at it hard enough should have stuck with a good old Villiers machine:hDe:

 

[goldstar31]

Jon,

You're doing fine. I wish that I was. Got a pair of screws which are probably 5.5mm or not to move. Mutter mutter

Incidentally, has the Postman been yet?

You are obviously thinking about things

Norm

 

[goldstar31]

Norm you just aint swearing at it hard enough should have stuck with a good old Villiers machine:hDe:

The motor is a Briggs and Stratton and no problem. It is getting the plastic decking separated from the chassis.

I know what is wrong.
it is a Bowden cable but it has a bent nipple as standard and it's alloy like a Talurit splicing.
What I need is an old Terry's magneto open ended spanner set. One of the screws came out with my late wife's extractor for wisdom teeth!
I've got the Orthodontic kit out:wall:

Regards to all

Norm

 

[JCSteam]

The motor is a Briggs and Stratton and no problem. It is getting the plastic decking separated from the chassis.

I know what is wrong.
it is a Bowden cable but it has a bent nipple as standard and it's alloy like a Talurit splicing.
What I need is an old Terry's magneto open ended spanner set. One of the screws came out with my late wife's extractor for wisdom teeth!
I've got the Orthodontic kit out:wall:

Regards to all

Norm

Sounds painful!!! :lol:

Yes Norman thank you the stick arrived today

Frazer your quite right I'd forgotten that little detail ooopppss!

 

[fcheslop]

Well that will keep both of you out of mischief
There must be thousands of those old mag spanners rusting in peace around the world.
Now youve got me wondering where I last left my set as Im sure the prince of darkness has struck again on the Royal oil field

 

[JCSteam]

Just a thought on the plastic cover, its not those pop type ones is it? A lot of cars and othe bits and bobs use them now, there like a stud with a tapered end and split in two, so the prongs spring out when the fastener is pressed into the hole. Sorry no idea of the name. They are reusable for cars with the centre been a plastic stud that when pulled out allows the tabs to be clamped together with a pair of pliers and pulled through?? As I said just a thought, if that fails try Frazers method and swear more at it

 

[goldstar31]

Jon
The plastic cover is the shell for a Castel Garden Xe70 sit on lawn mower. It covers the whole gubbins underneath and this damned cable is to engage what could be a crash gear box except that there ain't no gears. Sort of like the good old days when one did racing changes. I passed my test on a 1938 Morris 8 and my motor bike one on a Silent LE Velocette.

Frazer is right about corroded Maggie spanners.

Theoretically it should be Metric and 5.5 mm Across flats- but it aint. I cannot get a grip and it's only into plastic.

I'm 'old school' and there are no modern plastic turnbuttons.

The next gripping or non gripping episode is to follow. I Keep saying 'BA' or British Association and wonder why?

Norm

 

[fcheslop]

Jon, Iv sent you part of an email from Sandy about the screw pitch and dial error.Will you please confirm receipt to steambod on the toy forum
cheers

 

[goldstar31]

Jon, Iv sent you part of an email from Sandy about the screw pitch and dial error.Will you please confirm receipt to steambod on the toy forum
cheers

As an addition about feed screws on the Myford ML4, there is a an article in Model Engineer of 1989(?) from the late David Lammas who restored a friend's ML. It covered initially 'doing the bed' but went on to renew the feed screws etc. Maybe the local Society or readers here will have copies.

Again, I recall Martin Cleeve writing up on feed screws and threads. Again, the series of articles is 'Gold Dust' to someone who has the older Myford.

Somewhere else in ME is the article on the fabricated fixed steady ostensibly for his later ML7 but has working dimensions for his earlier machine.

I had to scrap my copies being threatened with legal action from the then new owners of Model Engineer!

Probably why I don't take or publish photos:fan:

Norm

 

[goldstar31]

Jon

Whilst awaiting the arrival of 'Les Enfants Terrible' and their 'Les Enfants Terrible', I was scratting about having found two zinc alloy castings from some Myford or other. The dials were cast with 100 divisions and could only have some later Myford.

So I went back to the French site and found that the early Myfords had NO dials. So I'm in a quandary as to what you have on your machine. The easiest way is to find out what threads are there.

Mine are classically modified to be 'zeroed' apart from two vertical slides being on no importance.
So what Verniers- and chop/grind the jaws are my thoughts in the absence of dials? Frankly, I would adopt a couple of these cheap Chinese and chop the jaws off. So the lathe could be brought into the 21st century and be able to use metric and imperial dimensions.

Sorry to ramble on a bit but hope that it helps

Norm

Interesting fault on the mower. A Bowden cable had pulled with me trying to engage the 'clutch' or equivalent. The Bowden outer plastic had touched the exhaust pipe and melted it. This left the cable exposed to damp and the inner cable was rusted solid. The sort of thing that one can get on a Mig welder
I've freed the cable temporarily. Now to put it back together.

The offending 'funny screw that was bugging the removal of the body shell has turned out to be 5BA

Don't ask me why. I know the Italians used to put garlic in Christmas puddings but this is ridiculous.

N

 

[JCSteam]

Hi Norman,

I'll have to remove and count the threads, on the topslide. And crosslide, these need taking off for a good clean up anyhow before I start using the lathe properly. The dials I have are what look like brass, and indexed at 80 divisions and can be turned to zero. The dials you have are most likely from an ML7.

The info that Frazer kindly sent onto me,explained that the earlier ML4 lathes had leadscrews had a 12TPI thread, with the lather lathes having a 10TPI leadscrews on the topslide and crosslide. The lathes now been put out in the shed after receiving its liberal dosage of a WD40 over everything to protect it from damp, and sheeted until I can get the bench up and it mounted.

This also leads onto another question I have about benches for the lathe.

So I have a 6x4' wooden shed,which will have a reinforced floor, (18mm OSB) with four 3x3" wooden bearers under the shed. Which should provide a solid shed In the absence of concrete flooring. In the shed as well as the lathe which measures 26" from edge of motor to front mounting feet, there will need to be provision for storing two bikes. As well as a set up for a small worktop to assemble on. Now most lathes I've seen are butt up to a wall running parallel, my thinking is (truth be told my partners 8 year old) that the lathe could be mounted diagonally across one corner of the shed, on a triangle bench top, with a small 300mm worktop running the length of one side of the shed. Tool storage been below both of these worktops. This would mean I have access to either end of the lathe and also space to move when working in the shed, a fold up extention to the bench could be added if required, supported like those fold out dining tables, with a slide out leg.

Thoughts and opinions on this please? As its in my mind the best use of the available space, the bikes would be sent outside while I was in the shed.

 

[goldstar31]

Jon
The feed screw question was uppermost. Hence the question. Obviously your brass dials are a latter addition
As far as an 6x4 shed is concerned, it is going to be tight but so is my 8x6 with a Myford across the back, the mill drill- with a power feed and a Clarkson 1 T&C . The drill has just left:wall:. The Quorn sort of hides under the benches with bits of stuff for the Clarkie and the Universal Pillar Tool and a couple of rotary tables, a versatile dividing head etc etc.

But think! One of my old white water and sailing mates had his ML7 under the bed and my late wife's tutor in dentistry and our organist at our wedding kept a ML7 under the stairs!

The old ML that made my metering valve for my school boy jet engine was fastened to the table in the wash house.

You want a play with a snowhole in midwinter in Arctic Norway to learn what is really tight. Never eat yellow snow:hDe:

One perspiring worker( friend Cleeve) drilled a hole in his shed to take bars of metal.

One of my old Rover Scouts took his watchmakers lathe to Oz on the top of his commando rucksack.

I could go on- apologies

N

 

[MRA]

I put my Boxford model 'A' in the LH corner of my shed, which is only a little bigger than yours, against the long wall. I made an opening window at the back of the head stock which is a little fiddly but means I can put a long bar through the head stock or use a draw bar for a collet chuck, both when it's not raining, with the window open!

More importantly, I put another window behind the lathe and made it a 'bay window' which pokes out about 6". The deep ledge is a great place to put the counter shaft (mine is a bench model and not an under drive lathe) which means the bed can sit closer to the wall and I lose less floor space. The countershaft bracket sits on the same bench as the lathe, so there's nothing structural about the window - it's just a bit of a scrap ply box with some glass in the front. I think it makes my shed rather classy - if it wasn't dark here I'd add a picture

I'd make your bench as massive as you can, store all your heavy tools on its shelves, and bolt your lathe tight to it - the heavier everything is the less you'll vibrate and the better finish you'll get. If you can use paving slabs under the lathe bench rather than a wooden floor, it'll be better. Pouring a bit of a floor in concrete would be better still, but maybe you need to make this more temporary than that.

hope that's useful

Mark

 

[JCSteam]

Hi Mark yes I would like to get set up to run and my house is rented, otherwise I'd be looking at building a brick shed with a concrete floor. I figure that if I can make the base of the shed, solid as I can then I'll be able to build a robust solid workbench out of 4x2's and a 38mm worktop, with a fold down extension for when I need more worktop space for assembling. That's my theory anyhow??