Lathe Tooling

[Nick Hulme]

It is often better to visualise the broad picture rather than propound a narrow solution.

I assume that it is often better to propound a simple, cheap solution for a single problem utilising existing equipment rather than to assume a wide range of unstated problems requiring a more complex and expensive solution.
;-)
- Nick

 

[goldstar31]

I assume that it is often better to propound a simple, cheap solution for a single problem utilising existing equipment rather than to assume a wide range of unstated problems requiring a more complex and expensive solution.
;-)
- Nick

As far as my suggested solution is concerned, ALL these possibilities were and are out of the scrap box.

In this connection, I recall that despite the passage of years, W.A. Bennett is still getting royalties from the continued sale of Thomas's Workshop Techniques in which the UPT is described.
I recall that the first description of it appeared in Model Engineer by Thomas, then Thomas published it as separate small book as 'The Universal Pillar Tool' along with a separate 'Dividing and Graduating ' book and then it is all amalgamated into Dr Bennett's more extensive book, Workshop Techniques.

With my late wife, I recall meeting up with Bill again, at the 50th Reunion of the Durham University Dental graduates and
Bill laughingly repeated the old Victorian song 'By Jove how the money rolls in, rolls in'

Sort of filling a need after removing the rotten stuff, perhaps?:hDe:

Norman

 

[Nick Hulme]

As far as my suggested solution is concerned, ALL these possibilities were and are out of the scrap box.

Norman,
I don't view time as cheap, or free, as I did in my youth, I'm very aware that the time I'm using is coming out of a finite pot.

- Nick

 

[radar]

Alright, so this is going to sound strange but here it goes-

Normally with QCTPs, the tool gets mounted where the tool is coming out of the right, so that it would go on the left when profiling is being done, boring bars to the left so that it would go horizontal for boring obviously. If I was making detailed wheels, would I just use boring bars for the facing or should I turn my regular tools around?

 

[goldstar31]

Again you are making 'sweeping statements' and would be advice becomes a matter of 'crystal gazing'
What is a detailed wheel? If it is a driving or bogie wheel for a model locomotive, I would seriously question whether a boring tool would be the preferred tool to make a shaped rim for going on rails. Again, I would doubt that an inserted carbide tool exists- or needs to exist!
Locomotive wheels are normally turned with either carbon or hss lathe tooling. By all means use a carbide to break through the 'skin' or crust but a dunk in say hydrochloric or muriatic acid will get rid of remaining casting sand or skin.

If you are using a QCTP- and we are all different , the maxim is that you should present the cutting tool in the most efficient way to remove the metal-- and not the other way around. I'd probably create a wheel rim profile with nothing more than finishing off with a hand held graver- which is probably little different to what my great grandfather, grandfather or father or uncles used.

Probably you could extend your knowledge if you bought an old book by LBSC or Leonard Sparey- or both.

Regards

Norman

 

[Nick Hulme]

or should I turn my regular tools around?

Add a rear tool-post and use the lathe in reverse as well as forward, that way a turning tool in the front post can be used as a facing tool in the rear toolpost, you can effectively double your tooling for the cost of an extra tool post.
If you do a lot of small things which you part off then an inverted parting tool for the rear post can be handy,

- Nick

 

[goldstar31]

My rear parting tool is one of those with an inclined inverted blade and runs in forward mode. It means that the swarf comes off as a ribbon being nipped narrower than the kerf and drops without binding. Had it for years!

So instead of all this prattle about front tooling, I've just ordered the casting for the Gibraltar tool post from Hemmingwaykits. So in for a penny, in for a pound, I thought that as my swing tool boring tool holder was so good, I might have a swing at the modification so that the most recent Cleeve design would screwcut- and retract as well.

So far so good, and I've also ordered 3 4" blanks to replace my heavily rusted set that go on the Thomas Versatile Dividing Head which comes with two worm wheels to do things - with a one hole division plate. All the clever stuff, if you know what I mean.

So I'm sitting at the feet of the guru again------------------------so to speak

Norman

 

[Blogwitch]

I think people are missing the point here, has anyone considered if the lathe he is considering getting can use tipped tools?.

With the smaller lathes, they just don't have the power to get a CCMT tip to work correctly whereas with a CCGT tip, then things could be achieved, but they are limited.

The CCMT (moulded) tips work by basically delaminating the material at almost atomic level, and this requires power to do properly.

A CCGT (ground) tip works similar to an HSS tool, a cutting action. Unfortunately, these won't cut the harder materials as the very fine edges are prone to chipping.

I quote the CCMT & CCGT range because this seems to be the most prolific, cheapest to run, adaptable and best for model engineering use (that is the range I use for my 12" lathe), but only on machines that have the power to use them correctly.

IMHO, for smaller lathes, you would be better off looking at brazed tip carbide tooling if you need to go that way. If ground and used correctly, they can be used just like CCGT tips, but for all materials.

At one time, full sets of brazed tip cutters were given away with new machines, but because they were usually sold to beginners, they didn't get used correctly ( not set correctly for height, plus reground incorrectly when they chipped them) and so soon broke, so they complained about it online which gave them really bad press.
I bought a set of them for only a few pounds many years ago, and used them until they couldn't be reground and sharpened any more. I only went over to insert tooling because I bought a much larger machine with the power to do things properly.
I, in fact, still use brazed tip tooling for all my single point thread cutting as I can get different grades and angles to cover different materials reasonably cheaply from MSC, and they last forever if used correctly.

John

 

[goldstar31]

Confessions should be good for the soul and I note a few of mine!

I have the remains of a set of CCMT inserts from Plansee which laughingly is a lake in the Tyrol and probably I should have returned them! About as useful as a *******************, well, they didn't work for me.

Again, I got a set of brazed things with a second hand Unimat clone. Again they were blunt and when I touched them with a 600grade hand held diamond hone, they were as soft as- well very nearly as- an 2B pencil.

No doubt I am not alone in these discoveries.

OK, I use inserts on my mill drill but I have more power and power steering of the slide thing!

As for the rest, I have decent HSS tools and I realise that qualities of hss are no different to rubbish or unsuitable carbides.

I confess that I don't have problems worth mentioning except to confess that I have a Clarkson but it is assisted with a Stent tool and cutter grinder- which sports a diamond disk. Adding up the relative costs, the two tools are far cheaper than the assorted boxes of whatnots. Again, I have a Quorn- somewhere but my Kennet which was the choice of many of the ancients is scheduled to sharpen slitting saws.

Do I need ALL of these? Honestly -NO! but making a Quorn does prove something.

I forget what:hDe:

 

[rodw]

I have the remains of a set of CCMT inserts from Plansee which laughingly is a lake in the Tyrol and probably I should have returned them! About as useful as a *******************, well, they didn't work for me.
:

Hmm, I thought they were awesome fom day 1 but then I did not buy them until after I upgraded my lathe which made life so much easier..

 

[goldstar31]

I discussed this yesterday whilst lying prone on a dentist's chair whilst the glue was setting on my temporary post to a front upper incisor.
I should have refused barbecued spareribs in one of these endless Chinese banquets! Almost going to be dearer than a new lathe--- heigh ho!

But the nice lady learned that I wasn't the only old fart with a rather posh house and a little Myford tucked away to maintain the image of professional affluence. Several of her senior lecturers/consultants had such things and made specialist surgical and dental tooling. Mine did a bit of casting of odd alloys- like gold and platinum from recovered fillings and bent endless springs etc to keep her old cherished motor going. To move to a different and larger sort of workshop environment is the quickest way to lose value both in property-- and neighbours.

To change a lathe which has pretty well every conceivable extra for something far more expensive only to accommodate an alternative and no better system of tooling is to say the least, questionable.

Regards

Norman

 

[goldstar31]

So instead of all this prattle about front tooling, I've just ordered the casting for the Gibraltar tool post from Hemmingwaykits. So in for a penny, in for a pound, I thought that as my swing tool boring tool holder was so good, I might have a swing at the modification so that the most recent Cleeve design would screwcut- and retract as well.

Norman

I've been having a second look at my original Cleeve boring tool holder.
Has anyone built one or better, modified the old design to retract for screwcutting ?

 

[goldstar31]

Speaking about Taig/Peatol stuff, has anyone tried www.cartertools.com?

Might get around to reading it too as I have a Unimat clone- oh, a watchmakers lathe as well. I keep forgetting but maybe as the latter is a 6 mm thing, I could easily miss it.

 

[Blogwitch]

BTW, the last picture is my swing up threading tool with the sets of threading cutters and grinding gauges for use with them.

For anyone new to threading on a lathe, and if it has a reverse, it could use one of these, and could easily be made by a beginner if they follow my sketch. Just a bit of angle iron and some bar plus a few screws.

Lots of people have made these now and people swear by them for ease of use.

Just make it to fit your size of machine.

John

 

[platypus20]

BTW, the last picture is my swing up threading tool with the sets of threading cutters and grinding gauges for use with them.

For anyone new to threading on a lathe, and if it has a reverse, it could use one of these, and could easily be made by a beginner if they follow my sketch. Just a bit of angle iron and some bar plus a few screws.

Lots of people have made these now and people swear by them for ease of use.

Just make it to fit your size of machine.

John

John,

You posted on Shopfloortalk, a while back about the swing up threading tool I made using an AXA, QCTP block and a carbide insert threading tool from Grizzly Industrial. I had somewhat copied your design, I had seen it some where in the forums, it works great. Thanks for sharing that.

 

[goldstar31]

I've been having a second look at my original Cleeve boring tool holder.
Has anyone built one or better, modified the old design to retract for screwcutting ?

I now have the Gibraltar casting and drawings and the 'new' Cleeve stuff and drawings

Also three replacement 4" plates to drill for my GHT Versatile Dividing Head.

Going to be busy once my Lammas 3 Way tool holder is completed.:fanhew:wall:

 

[radar]

Gents,

I have had good luck on my Delta lathe with CCMT and TCMT bits. The vendor (Little Machine Shop) has told me with the brushless motor lathe that they sell it would do just fine with indexable bits.
Just in case and to give it the due diligence that is needed, does anyone have any plans for tangential tool bits that are not a nightmare to build? The lathe I am looking at has a 7" swing. (SC3 Sieg based- ditched the idea of buying a Taig when I yanked my head from my bum)

I had an idea for them, which was just making it where the bit would be sandwiched between two pieces of steel and held in with screws applying pressure to both sides of the tool holder.

I am still inclined to believe that I might be alright with carbide bits- but time will tell with that one on the small lathe.

 

[ulfw]

http://www.chronos.ltd.uk/

I am using chronos for tools

 

[Blogwitch]

Unfortunately Ulfw, you have shown one of the slowest shippers in the UK, if they ship at all.

I have ordered stuff from them, and when I asked about the order a week later, they told me it had been cancelled because they didn't have any stock, no email sent to let me know. This wasn't just once, but several times.

I HAD to order from them the middle of last week, something I couldn't get elsewhere at the same price (a rather expensive item) and they shipped it yesterday, I'm expecting delivery in a couple of days. That will be ten days.

Now I ordered a Myford 4" chuck backplate from RDG on Monday, it was delivered 10 minutes ago by normal 1st class post.

Both do free shipping in the UK. Arc Euro also do fast shipping, but they do have a price limit to reach before you get free delivery, but it isn't much.


John

 

[pandy]

Hi.

I assume you are in the US. If you are able to access this month's Model Engineering workshop Magazine (perhaps on the web), there is a very interesting article on a DIY toolpost that utilises one single indexable tip in such a way that all plain turning and turning to a shoulder can be done without changing Tool! A very interesting and simple concept.

Pandy, UK