Lathe accident, Tool organizer, bad idea.

Discussion in 'Mistakes, Blunders and Boo Boos' started by Scota4570, May 22, 2011.

Help Support HMEM by donating:

  1. Feb 11, 2014 #61

    gus

    gus

    gus

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2010
    Messages:
    2,998
    Likes Received:
    1,165
    I have too many used/new tothbrushes lying around. Been using mini brushed to apply cutting oil when parting. Brushes do eaten up when using it to clear chip build up. Will try out toothbrushes.

    Chips.
    In 1961,we had open day at Singapore Polytechnic and Gus was one of those students demonstrating his
    (limited)turning skills. A rather long swirl was generated and curling out nicely and Gus was playing with it. An elderly gentleman gave me good advice. "Never never play with those swirls,you can loose your fingers/hand/arm and life." Took his advice seriously.
    30 years later,Gus gave same advice to an apprentice turner and only to get a sharp rebuke. Days later he lost a finger while turning stainless steel.

    Wearing gloves when working on a drill press is also another potential finger losing event. My left thumb got dislocated and hand scarred. Scar is still there but very faint.
     
    Walltoddj and robcas631 like this.
  2. Mar 4, 2014 #62

    valentin

    valentin

    valentin

    Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2014
    Messages:
    15
    Likes Received:
    11
    Well, it is said that "safety culture is all that we do when our boss is not watching us".
     
    gus and robcas631 like this.
  3. Mar 5, 2014 #63

    Walltoddj

    Walltoddj

    Walltoddj

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2013
    Messages:
    145
    Likes Received:
    55
    As far as I'm concerned glove don't belong around any machines I've seen to many stupid things done with gloves on. A Pipefitter ground his hand up nicely because a glove got caught in the sanding belt. Glove just are not a good thing in this kind of work!

    Todd
     
    gus and robcas631 like this.
  4. Mar 5, 2014 #64

    barnesrickw

    barnesrickw

    barnesrickw

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2012
    Messages:
    645
    Likes Received:
    121
    When I logged and used a chainsaw in winter (Michigan) I seldom used gloves. I prefer to feel the machine in my hand. I know that's not the recommended way, but it makes me feel safer.


    Sent from my iPad using Model Engines
     
    gus, Walltoddj and robcas631 like this.
  5. Mar 6, 2014 #65

    robcas631

    robcas631

    robcas631

    Well-Known Member HMEM Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2011
    Messages:
    525
    Likes Received:
    72
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Liberty, NY
    I'm moving my tool shelf before I go near my lathe. TY for indicating how dangerous such a set up can be. I hope your friend gets better!
     
  6. Mar 6, 2014 #66

    robcas631

    robcas631

    robcas631

    Well-Known Member HMEM Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2011
    Messages:
    525
    Likes Received:
    72
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Liberty, NY

    I never wear gloves, long sleeve shirts or my wedding ring. Yet if there is a remote chance I'll not take it!
     
  7. Mar 7, 2014 #67

    Omnimill

    Omnimill

    Omnimill

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2009
    Messages:
    1,090
    Likes Received:
    46
    Agreed, the belt slips on mine as well if the load gets too high.
    I guess sometimes bigger isn't better for what we do.
     
    robcas631 likes this.
  8. Mar 7, 2014 #68

    Wizard69

    Wizard69

    Wizard69

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2013
    Messages:
    1,330
    Likes Received:
    264

    In my mind E-Stops are very important, especially if you work in an environment with many different machines. First E-Stops by design are very recognizable and easy to hit. Second, properly implemented they kill everything from motors to air power apparatus. Sometimes hitting the E-Stop causes more problems than you would like, but it is the consistent way to respond to an emergency.


    Sent from my iPad using Model Engines
     
    robcas631 likes this.
  9. Mar 8, 2014 #69

    Hopper

    Hopper

    Hopper

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2013
    Messages:
    646
    Likes Received:
    210
    I think our resident OSHA types would take a dim view of my set up with tools on a shadowboard behind my old Drummond 3.5" lathe.

    [​IMG]

    But I note that the OP referred to a LeBlond 15" x 56" lathe, a full sized toolroom type lathe.
    Leaning over that huge chunk of machinery to reach the wall does seem like a death-defying act.
    Whole different thing from a small model-making lathe be it mini-lathe or Myford size. I can stand were I usually work at the lathe and reach over and pic tools off the wall without bending over or getting anywhere near the chuck etc. I am tall and lanky, so that helps.

    But as you can see, I have everything away from the moving parts, and a small shelf with a 2" high lip around it for putting bits and pieces of the current job in. This is also designed to catch any tools in the unlikely event they fall off their hooks.
    Under that, right down at the tailstock end, is a small set of plastic drawers for tool bits etc.

    The business end (no belt guards at all, yet) I keep away from. I keep the change gears there on the wall as you only get them off and on the wall when the lathe is stopped and you are fitting the gears. Skirted shelf at the bottom there holds motorcycle chainlube for the gears (doesnt fling off). Nothing is stored on the wall directly behind the chuck because, a) it is the danger area and b) it gets sprayed with oil and grease etc off the chuck.

    Been doing it this way since I was a boy (this is my Dad's old lathe) and no problems. I rarely have need to reach over the lathe while it is running, and if I do, it is well to the tailstock end away from danger.

    So I think it is possible to make good use of most of the space behind the small lathe without danger if you have limited space like I do. If it is done thoughtfully.



    Now, I have made some concessions to modernity and done away with the bronze bush countershaft bearings that required oiling while in use by leaning over the business end with an oil can. Replaced them with a pair of ball bearing plummer blocks ($22 each including shipping from Hong Kong - cant beat it).
    But I still have to oil the headstock bearings with an oil can while in use. Pair of brass lubricators is next on the list.

    [​IMG]

    One other thing in the picture I am quite pleased with is the old wine bottle rack to the right, used to store lengths of bar stock etc. Handiest thing I ever scrounged up.

    [​IMG]
     
  10. Mar 16, 2014 #70

    Tin Falcon

    Tin Falcon

    Tin Falcon

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2007
    Messages:
    7,212
    Likes Received:
    766
    In an attempt to keep things on subject the post on motorcycle crashes/war stories were moved to a new thread in the break room . Thank you for your understanding.
    Tin
     
    robcas631 likes this.
  11. Mar 16, 2014 #71

    Walltoddj

    Walltoddj

    Walltoddj

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2013
    Messages:
    145
    Likes Received:
    55
    I have to disagree with you Tin Falcon it all the same Safety the bottom line is try to pay attention and don't get distracted but until you've been there you won't know!!

    Todd
     
    robcas631 likes this.
  12. Mar 25, 2014 #72

    Fabrickator

    Fabrickator

    Fabrickator

    Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2014
    Messages:
    32
    Likes Received:
    6
    I don't keep anything behind the business end of my lathe. I do have a chuck & live center rack beyond the tail stock though. I'm always thinking about what I'm doing with my hands. I always run my belt on the "loose" side so it slips before it breaks anything. Belts are cheap. I never wear gloves, sleeves, apron or hats. I even use a retaining band for my eyeglasses in case they fell off. I never place anything like mic, calipers, allen wrenches or chuck key on top of the lathe gearbox.

    My biggest temptation is to reach in and grab swarf. I consistently have to remind myself to leave it alone, no matter how it may effect my finish cut. I have one of the spring steel, long grabber things they sell, but I think that these are for fools who could still get it caught up or feel invulnerable to an accident if they use it. I've vowed to let it fall where it may, clean it out when the machine is off and not be too lazy to sweep often, before I have a serious accident.

    I also have a habit I stick to when I have to change belts, the chuck or set-ups. USE THE BIG RED BUTTON! Don't be too lazy to have to reset the machine (ESO-reset-start).

    I often think about what would happen if I got hurt. I keep my cell phone handy in the event I'm hurt or incapacitated. I keep my garage door open so I could yell to a neighbor and I keep my 8' fence/gate partially open so EMS or anyone that hears me can get into my back yard garage.

    Grizzly G0602

    Rick
     
    Walltoddj likes this.
  13. Aug 3, 2014 #73

    besser

    besser

    besser

    New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2014
    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    1
    I had the unfortunate experience to cause a machine accident simply by asking what happened. The guy who saw the accident reinacted it exactly for me. It involved a rolling machine that had neatly removed the fingernails of a previous employee. So this guy explains what happened and what went wrong. He simply didn't realise that the first accident was not someone being stupid or clumsy but someone not giving the machine respect. He waved his fingers near the rollers then did a very real jerking his hand out the way impression, his face went white and the machine didn't miss a beat. He fainted and several of us picked him up to find 3 fingernails missing and the tips crushed. Unfortunately the business didn't use the experience to teach a valuable lesson, they decommissioned the machine.

    I realised you can't calculate and understand the risks, you have to take action to prevent the unexpected. I wear safety shoes, glasses ear plugs, gloves with hand tools only and plan each step before I do it. It's probably the planning the protects me against the unknown the most.
     
  14. Aug 3, 2014 #74

    SixSixSevenSeven

    SixSixSevenSeven

    SixSixSevenSeven

    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2014
    Messages:
    25
    Likes Received:
    3
    http://www.appaltree.net/aba/Safety.htm

    Seems pretty simply, no gloves and the safety shields on equipment are there for a reason (I have actually seen an angle grinder disc shatter although in this case the safety shield was fitted and nobody was harmed at all)
     
  15. Aug 5, 2014 #75

    Wizard69

    Wizard69

    Wizard69

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2013
    Messages:
    1,330
    Likes Received:
    264

    I've heard of a similar thing happening at another plant across town. This was years ago but something similar in that somebody asked a supervisor / group leader what happened and that person proceeded to demonstrate completely what happened. Including the bodily injury. At least that is what we where told being a different company I can't say how accurate the second hand reports where.

    The moral of the story here is to not ask questions like that. I've seen or heard of some really gruesome "accidents" in my lifetime which tends to make one think before jumping. I basically started out in plant maintenance / machinery rebuild, in a die cast foundry. Every single machine or device in that plant had the potential to do grave harm. I was actually happy to leave that place for tamer environs.

    The best action to take is to try to avoid getting caught up in the moment. I think this injures more guys that just about anything else. Forgetting to think can be fatal, sometimes causing everyone to slow down is the right thing to do.
     
  16. Aug 7, 2014 #76

    gus

    gus

    gus

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2010
    Messages:
    2,998
    Likes Received:
    1,165
    Reverse Engineer Built this 6' x 5/16'' Pyramid Roll in 1993 to roll air receiver shells.
    The Bending Roll can pull and roll in from finger/hand and entire human body. This is one industrial accident Gus have no desire to happen.
    With this in mind, safety practice training were done and only trained authorised operator/s can operate B.Roll. Toggle Controls located safely away from rolls. A kick activated dead man switch
    installed at the ''C'' frame, front and back plus Emergency Push Lock Stop Button at Console.
    Same machine rolled out thousands of air receeiver shells w/o any minor or major accidents.

    Treat every machine tool with utmost respect.

    IMG_1280.jpg
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2014
  17. Nov 11, 2014 #77

    jj-smith

    jj-smith

    jj-smith

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2014
    Messages:
    63
    Likes Received:
    8
    Howdy folks,

    It's good to have read this thread,

    It reminds me that no matter how smart you are, or however much you may think that things are under control..., they are not!
    All it takes is one moment of distraction, or a move automatically made from many times of repeating the same thing and bingo, you're missing a finger or worse.

    Just a few days ago I noticed that I would reach for the on-off switch automatically with the left hand while my right hand is busy moving a work piece or inserting the chuck key!
    Especially when clamping a piece to center it and having to re-do that a couple of times, and worse....some times for no reason at all!
    I caught myself just ready to insert the key after having turned on the switch.

    We take too many things for granted way too much. I am sure it's not just me either.

    In the same habit of auto movements without thinking later on, I turned on the switch while having just cleared the chuck by a millisecond, and put the chuck key in the proper place on the cabinet top next to the lathe on the right past the tail stock.
    The lathe is now running with me not paying attention to the chuck end as a second mistake, and my left hand was just a bit away from the revolving chuck, turning at some 300 plus rpm.
    This should not have happened till I was ready to pay attention to work the piece!

    I had made a mental note to do something to stop that nonsense, but it gets forgotten about with the daily burdens and distractions taking our minds and thoughts elsewhere.

    I find myself reading here and kicking my not so royal sorry arse for being so slack and careless.
    I will find a way of changing that habit of auto movements, through training myself to work in steps and blocks that will preclude adding power in a tool or work piece moving op.

    I am a rational person and know that repetitive training will form habits that can mitigate mistakes like that.

    The reading here of things that happen to folks is a damn good reminder to get "with it" and do something about it so I may last a bit longer with all supplied parts attached!

    The shelves and placing tools, boring bars and reamers in the shelf area behind the chuck is another issue I'll have to deal with and change, all it took was some reading here to realize how unsafe that really is, and what possible consequences that could create.

    One does not always think ahead. In this case my setup came with the lathe years ago when I bought it and the area it resides in as part of it, So somewhere along bringing it all home, the safety factor never rung a bell and fate was just waiting for me to screw up.

    This is (as I have to admit to myself) the reason why safety programs are becoming more stringent and better enforced daily, and for good reasons.

    Just thought I'd re-enforce my own resolve to get smart with the home rules.

    Regards, J.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2014
  18. Nov 12, 2014 #78

    gus

    gus

    gus

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2010
    Messages:
    2,998
    Likes Received:
    1,165
    Fatal Injury
    A friend posted a very disturbing foto on my FaceBook. I will not post it in on this forum.
    The turner had his arm torned off and head smashed on the lathe. Foto shows him wearing long sleeves.
    I can only imagine he was reaching over the job and it caught his sleeve.
    Now looking for "Push Lock Stop Button Switches for left and right sides of lathe table.
    Gus spent 53 years working off/on on machine tools. Would like my life,hands,fingers,arms and eyes intact when I depart.
    Take Care.
     
  19. Nov 12, 2014 #79

    jj-smith

    jj-smith

    jj-smith

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2014
    Messages:
    63
    Likes Received:
    8
    Sofar, with the "newer" lathe, I'm happy to say that the cumbersome push-lock MAIN power switch is a good idea, as it requires one extra move to get the lathe to operating mode.

    I have started to use that feature EVERY time I shut the lathe down to make a move.
    When the next move comes to turn on the lathe to work a piece, I have to turn on the main, and then the on-off switch, which puts a second motion in place by which I have more time to think and do the right thing.
    It'a PITA to learn to do, but eventually it will become a learned behaviour action and save a dumb move of some kind by which to lose a finger or get hurt in some way.

    I've looked into a similar method to switch the Atlas on and off with, because THAT was the lathe that I messed up with, that one only having one main on-off switch.
    I will also move the main switch away from the headstock area on this lahe to ensure that I will never be able to switch on to readily, plus I will install a primary power switch to turn on before the lathe can be turned on.
    I know it seems like a cumbersome way to do things, but my fingers are important to me, they keep my nose clean!
    And it is not like I'm holding up production in any way, I like to enjoy my machines, not to become too worried about them because I can be scatterbrained at times.
     
  20. Nov 12, 2014 #80

    Hopper

    Hopper

    Hopper

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2013
    Messages:
    646
    Likes Received:
    210
    I'm with Gus on this. I too am looking for a couple of big red stop buttons to put at each end of my lathe.
    I had a little near miss the other night, when tired. I was knurling a piece of steel and as has long been my habit, was feeling the knurled surface with my finger while the job was rotating to feel how pointed the knurls were getting.
    But as I was knurling just a narrow band about 6mm wide, my finger just brushed near the rotating knurling wheel and I felt the skin on my fingertip just start to get pinched between the rotating work and the harndened steel teeth of the knurling wheel. Luckily it just brushed and I pulled my finger away quick smart.

    So next run, I was dabbing a little cutting oil on the knurling wheel with a half-inch wide pig bristle paintbrush. Out of idle curiosity I let the tip of the brush get down between the knurling wheel and the rotating job. Holy Moley!!! Sucked that brush right in there and chewed the bristles up and spat them out the other side, eventually. No way I could pull it out of there without stopping the lathe. (Was in backgear, so maximum torque at low gearing.) The ultimate meat grinder.

    Been using lathes at home and at work for 40 years or more and never even really thought about knurling tools quite that way.
    But it did make me think about, well what if my finger had got sucked in between the knurl tool and the rotating job?
     

Share This Page