keats plate and faceplate

[sniffipn]

inspired by photo of tooling in Valery's thread and Normans comment in that thread " ... perhaps made from welded bits if right angled mild steel. "

1. a fabricated Keats plate to make
2. and a small faceplate or two. Google took me to Harold Hall

 

[goldstar31]

if it helps?

Harold Hall i ( I think) Issue 3 of Model Engineers Workshop described - with plans- a pair of castings form College Engineering.

Having said that, I bought 30 kilos of scrap metal (??????) as a Lucky Dip job and there is loads of 'angle iron. Anyone with access to a welder could knock up various sizes to suit things on the faceplate or catch plate.

I have no idea what Hemingwaykits offering is like but kirk's quality is high.
However following a somewhat waffling set of comments about 'ancient workholding on bloody big machines when we lessr mortals have quite small stuff, might I suggest what the older brigade have used and do use now?

Ivariably, they always had a chunk of metal- cast iron, mild steel or whatever was to hand and mounted it to fit oin the boring table which could be drilled, tapped, modified or whatever to hold irregular holdings on all sorts of things and when 'worn out' made another one. The late 'Martin Cleeve'- Kenneth C Hart made up his block from fabricated mild steel sections so that it contained Myford slots on the top and the working side. I recall that he published it in an early edition of Engineering in Miniature and there is a listed item in the Blackgates catalogue.
Harold Hall writing oas editor of Model Engineer's Workshop published a large number of his own clamps and workholding accessories in book form. I have a copy 'somewhere'.

For those who want to follow the topic, the internet- the UK version for a whole raft of useful ideas that make life so much more pleasant.

And recalling tht it is a long time since I had my little Mig out, results need not be pretty as lommg as they bwork

Best Wishes. Let us see other ideas

Best Wishes

Norman

 

[Mechanicboy]

If no acess to milling machine and enough material to create, then buy a Keats angle plate, price is not high.. RDGTOOLS KEATS ANGLE PLATE FOR ROUND BAR WITH CLAMP FOR MYFORD LATHES | eBay

 

[sniffipn]

If no acess to milling machine and enough material to create, then buy a Keats angle plate, price is not high.. RDGTOOLS KEATS ANGLE PLATE FOR ROUND BAR WITH CLAMP FOR MYFORD LATHES | eBay

its an option - thanks for the link

as is hemmingway

and Harold Hall

there is, however, plenty of angle available

i'm not in a hurry

there is the appeal of making a tool

and £48, is 4 tanks of petrol for the motorbike.

and if i buy one, this thread will be shorter

 

[sniffipn]

if it helps?

Harold Hall i ( I think) Issue 3 of Model Engineers Workshop described - with plans- a pair of castings form College Engineering.

Having said that, I bought 30 kilos of scrap metal (??????) as a Lucky Dip job and there is loads of 'angle iron. Anyone with access to a welder could knock up various sizes to suit things on the faceplate or catch plate.

I have no idea what Hemingwaykits offering is like but kirk's quality is high.
However following a somewhat waffling set of comments about 'ancient workholding on bloody big machines when we lessr mortals have quite small stuff, might I suggest what the older brigade have used and do use now?

Ivariably, they always had a chunk of metal- cast iron, mild steel or whatever was to hand and mounted it to fit oin the boring table which could be drilled, tapped, modified or whatever to hold irregular holdings on all sorts of things and when 'worn out' made another one. The late 'Martin Cleeve'- Kenneth C Hart made up his block from fabricated mild steel sections so that it contained Myford slots on the top and the working side. I recall that he published it in an early edition of Engineering in Miniature and there is a listed item in the Blackgates catalogue.
Harold Hall writing oas editor of Model Engineer's Workshop published a large number of his own clamps and workholding accessories in book form. I have a copy 'somewhere'.

For those who want to follow the topic, the internet- the UK version for a whole raft of useful ideas that make life so much more pleasant.

And recalling tht it is a long time since I had my little Mig out, results need not be pretty as lommg as they bwork

Best Wishes. Let us see other ideas

Best Wishes

Norman

this one, Norman?

Harold Hall website shows many clamps

the captive faceplate clamps look useful too

the index give some ideas

David

 

[goldstar31]

Yes

The Tee Slotted table IS the one from Martin Cleeve. The dimensions of the slots is standrd Myford and if you do not have a Myford it is a fairly easy matter to alter to suit individual needs.
Actually Cleeve also wrote up his Swing Tool Holder- which is also fabricated. It also appears in EIM but much waelier, thee is a free copy in one of the American mags. I have one made from those old drawings and this avoids packing pieces but lifts up and there fore keeps the setting whilst measuring takes place.
Later in his life, 'Cleeve' slightly altered his design to mae it retract as a screwcutting tool. It really is simply changing the pivot bolt and eccentric one but again Hemingwaykits has the up to date drawings in their kit. Sorry for going off at a tangent but may you accept me in my twilight of life( aka dotage) Cleeve. was great on cheap fabrication - hated cast iron on his ML7 and -- made his own nuts and bolts and wrote Screwcutting in the Lathe.
Drop me a PM and I will endeavour to trace the drawing!

Meantime

Best Wishes

Norman

 

[sniffipn]

Yes

The Tee Slotted table IS the one from Martin Cleeve. The dimensions of the slots is standrd Myford and if you do not have a Myford it is a fairly easy matter to alter to suit individual needs.
Actually Cleeve also wrote up his Swing Tool Holder- which is also fabricated. It also appears in EIM but much waelier, thee is a free copy in one of the American mags. I have one made from those old drawings and this avoids packing pieces but lifts up and there fore keeps the setting whilst measuring takes place.
Later in his life, 'Cleeve' slightly altered his design to mae it retract as a screwcutting tool. It really is simply changing the pivot bolt and eccentric one but again Hemingwaykits has the up to date drawings in their kit. Sorry for going off at a tangent but may you accept me in my twilight of life( aka dotage) Cleeve. was great on cheap fabrication - hated cast iron on his ML7 and -- made his own nuts and bolts and wrote Screwcutting in the Lathe.
Drop me a PM and I will endeavour to trace the drawing!

Meantime

Best Wishes

Norman

thanks Norman. i have the screwcutting book. maybe useful now to realise cleeve is a pen name. retracting boring/screwcutting tool undoubtedly useful. if when the time comes, i cant locate the drawing, i'll message you.
thanks,
David

 

[sniffipn]

Yes

The Tee Slotted table IS the one from Martin Cleeve. The dimensions of the slots is standrd Myford and if you do not have a Myford it is a fairly easy matter to alter to suit individual needs.
Actually Cleeve also wrote up his Swing Tool Holder- which is also fabricated. It also appears in EIM but much waelier, thee is a free copy in one of the American mags. I have one made from those old drawings and this avoids packing pieces but lifts up and there fore keeps the setting whilst measuring takes place.
Later in his life, 'Cleeve' slightly altered his design to mae it retract as a screwcutting tool. It really is simply changing the pivot bolt and eccentric one but again Hemingwaykits has the up to date drawings in their kit. Sorry for going off at a tangent but may you accept me in my twilight of life( aka dotage) Cleeve. was great on cheap fabrication - hated cast iron on his ML7 and -- made his own nuts and bolts and wrote Screwcutting in the Lathe.
Drop me a PM and I will endeavour to trace the drawing!

Meantime

Best Wishes

Norman

there is a beauty in seeing the hexagons, come out of round stock. different possibilities to generate them too. the development-evolution of Cleeves lathe to speed production, fascinating.

tangents are fine things, Norman - as are cascades, fireworks .... and noticing how seeing one star on a frosty night, leads to awareness of so many more.
David

 

[goldstar31]

we've just been finalising the posting of a parcel of equipment from originally Troutbeck in Cumbria and concluded with a far more valuable ( in all aspects) of things like bankruptcy or whatever from solicitors, Enduring Powers of Attorney and the dreaded involvement with the Court of Protection- and Remainder men.

As we both agreed, this is only a hobby. That real life is outside the somewhat crazy confines of the shed
Somewhat wistfully!

Norman

 

[fcheslop]

Another variation

 

[sniffipn]

Another variation

thanks
and another name/description

Stefan - always a delight to watch ... clearly explained ... an education - makes it all look easy.

as Norman suggested ... lots of mass

and mentions the additional benefit of easy cleaning when used with a tool post grinder.

i wonder whether This Old Tony, Robrenz and Joe Pie show the device?
David

 

[goldstar31]

Of course david you naew missing the other variation to the fabricated block from 'Martin Cleeve'.

He also produced a modified face plate with 4 regents to form 4 Myford type tee slots. They were simply clocked up against the tees with tee nuts and that was really it. I had a casting for the vPools Special similar to this but gave it away as the nose thread- was wrong for my ne-er lathe( then)

I suppose my 94 year

Might I digress further? old mate still has it. He made a simplified gear box- possibly it was shown here but perhaps by JCSteam as he has a collection of old ModelEngineers. He( not Jon) made a two ended gear cutter and cut amongst other things the transposing gear to cut metric threads. it was quite ingenious. I still have part of his Turrets without milling in the form of a built up rear tool post--which CAN act as a conventional holder for milling and drilling. again, almost all came from rectangular bits of steel.

 

[SteveT]

Co incidental or what??
Spent most of yesterday afternoon trying ( & failing) to centre up a bore in a casting held in/on a Keats angle plate, mounted on a Myford face plate. Took me all evening to recover from the trauma
Because the face plate has radial slots every movement of the angle plate throws up an error in another reading.
Any magical suggestions gratefully received.
Steve T

 

[MRA]

Your first post mentions welding - I fabricated a few angle plates this way from big (6x6) and small (2x3, I think) bits of mild steel angle. I welded gussets in, and then the main thing which made it practical was access to a Bridgeport at work with a large face cutter, so I could get the faces true.

At work I'm trying to replace the word 'foreigner' with the phrase 'training opportunity'

 

[goldstar31]

Co incidental or what??
Spent most of yesterday afternoon trying ( & failing) to centre up a bore in a casting held in/on a Keats angle plate, mounted on a Myford face plate. Took me all evening to recover from the trauma
Because the face plate has radial slots every movement of the angle plate throws up an error in another reading.
Any magical suggestions gratefully received.
Steve T

The faceplate problem is not insurmountable. You can make up a tee slotted faceplate on your proper faceplate= and bung the holding bolts where they will go. So you will be able to fit the Keats plate and work i TWO dimensions or make up a wobbler( I have a G H Thomas one from his book) which I normally use with an independent 4 jaw chuck.
Really it all simple if broken down to doimng one bit at a time.
Again, you could take known bit of round and clock it true and centre it.

Hope this clears the problem.

 

[SteveT]

Thanks for your help goldstar.
I'm leaning towards making up a 'mandrel' to fit the bore and holding this in a chuck fixed to the tailstock.
This should enable the Keats plate to be roughly positioned and then only minor adjustments necessary. At least that's my present thinking.
Steve T

 

[goldstar31]

As Always, I sort of think for myself so have a look at 'Lathe. co.Uk -Potts ' and I've just got 30 years old one== like rocking horse manure-- and rather expensive. I planned to fit a chuck with a set of soft jaws as one of my brain storms.

Above all Enjoy

Norman

 

[Richard Hed]

Co incidental or what??
Spent most of yesterday afternoon trying ( & failing) to centre up a bore in a casting held in/on a Keats angle plate, mounted on a Myford face plate. Took me all evening to recover from the trauma
Because the face plate has radial slots every movement of the angle plate throws up an error in another reading.
Any magical suggestions gratefully received.
Steve T

Is it possible to send a photo of the problem? I thimk there should be several possible solutions.

 

[fcheslop]

Depending on the size of the bore ? . Use a centre in the tailstock to push the Keats against the faceplate with the casting already fixed into the Keats .This should get you to within a couple of thou
If the bore is larger than the centre turn up a button or top hat bit of scrap the smaller dia to fit the bore . Centre drill the large dia for the centre
A bit rough but the way I was shown to quickly get a rough setting . Then clock it in
cheers

 

[Charles Lamont]

Spring washers help with faceplate setups. Things are moveable, but stay put. I have even made my own 'belville' washers.