How do you unstick a stuck morse taper in an X2 mill?

Discussion in 'General Engine Discussion' started by tmuir, May 20, 2009.

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  1. May 20, 2009 #1

    tmuir

    tmuir

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    I tried to remove my er32 chuck tonight but I couldn't, the Morse taper is stuck in well and truly.
    I tried undoing the retaining bolt a couple of mm and tapping it with a rubber mallet but had no joy.
    Tried locking the spindle and fitted a large spanner to the chuck and attempted to turn it and pull down with no luck.
    I actually don't really need to remove it at the moment but I may some day so any tips to get it out would be great.

    thanks
     
  2. May 20, 2009 #2

    dwentz

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    Do not try to twist it, you could damage the mating surface. Support the bottom of the mill with something, I have just set it down on 123 blocks or something like that, and use a metal hammer on the drawbar. It should come out with that. The rubber mallet does not transfer enough force. A few small blows are better than one large one. Once you get it out check the surfaces, and see of you had a chip get in. I wipe the surfaces down with a little spindle oil from time to time to keep them from sticking.

    Dale

     
  3. May 20, 2009 #3

    PhillyVa

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    A brass punch or hammer is what I would use first to insure that you don't any damage.

    Philly
     
  4. May 20, 2009 #4

    Jasonb

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    I use the copper end of a copper/hide mallet on the draw bar of my X3.

    Try removing it after the machine has been running a while, it may just warm up teh spindle a touch to make it expand slightly.

    Jason
     
  5. May 21, 2009 #5

    bentprop

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    This may seem elementary,but I don't know how much experience you have with your mill.
    Unscrew the drawbar a couple of turns,then tap it with a hammer.This should loosen the taper enough to unscrew the drawbar by hand,and remove your tooling.
    Maybe teaching you to suck eggs,but I had this vision of a fellow knocking the bejasus out of the drawbar,and getting nowhere. :big:
     
  6. May 21, 2009 #6

    rake60

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    The only X2 with a Morse taper that I am aware of is the Grizzly
    machine with a MT#3 taper. The draw bar thread in that machine
    has a M12-1.75 thread. If my assumptions are correct, I would
    recommend going to your local hardware store to purchase a long
    M12-1.75 bolt. Screw it into the back side if the ER32 chuck until it
    bottoms out then back it off two full turns.
    After doing that, give the head of that bolt progressively sharper
    raps with a steel hammer. I think you'll be surprised by how easily
    it will let go by that method.

    Rick
     
  7. May 21, 2009 #7

    tmuir

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    Thats exactly what I was doing but was getting nowhere with the method.

    I remember someone showing their lead hammer they made.
    I've got several kg of lead I might make myself one of those at some point but will need to buy an appropriate face mask first.
    Here we go again, buy a tool to make a tool to fix a tool so I can finish making another tool. :big:
     
  8. May 21, 2009 #8

    gilessim

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    I know this may sound silly but I have the same mill as yours and have had similar problems, I use a plastic faced hammer and sometimes I have to belt it really hard,up until now it has always eventually come out!, as dwentz says ,don't twist it but when you put it back ,a tiny smear of oil doesn't stop it sticking but helps a lot to get it out again!, also try taking the draw bar completely out and squirt some WD40 in there and leave it for a while, then try again!

    Giles
     
  9. May 21, 2009 #9

    bob ward

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    Is a an improvised puller feasible?

    I'm thinking 2 metal plates, one bears on top of the loosened draw bar, the other across the quill area, and 2 lengths of threaded rod to tie them together
     
  10. May 21, 2009 #10

    Andrew_D

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    For reference... In Canada, Princess Auto sells the X2 with an MT3 spindle as well, even though their catalog states it is R8.

    The draw bar thread is not machine specific though, since it only passes through the machine. It's the accessory (end mill holder, collet, drill chuck, etc.) that determines the thread. I have accessories that use 3/8" draw bars and others that use M10 draw bars.

    But, getting back on topic... On my X2, I loosen the draw bar a couple of turns to start. Now if the table is clear, I lower the head onto "something" to support the head. Usually though, there is a setup on the table and I'm changing cutters mid-project. In this case, I make sure to tighten the lock on the Z-axis. Now give a few light-medium taps. As mentioned before, this is better than a big whack. I use a small 4 oz. hammer for this. It's small enough to remind myself not to swing it to hard. This has always worked for me.

    Every once in a while, I'll rub the inside of the spindle taper with an oily rag to clear out any possible chips. Just remember to dry it off before using - you don't want oil in there. All collets, chucks, etc also get a quick rub with an oily cloth and a dry down before being installed.

    Andrew
     
  11. May 21, 2009 #11

    tmuir

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    My mill isn't actually an x2 it's a Hafco HM-10, an Australian brand but it is identical to the X2 and it is a MT3.
    It's cold and stormy tonight so haven't gone out into the workshop
     
  12. May 23, 2009 #12

    AlanHaisley

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    Longer term you might want a lead hammer. It's purpose is to keep from damaging the drawbar end.
    (Small lead hammers can also be used to make adjustments in machine or part alignment without creating scars.)
    For now you could use a piece of aluminum or brass round held on top of the drawbar. Hit that a few times with a regular small hammer.

    You are not really trying to drive the thing out so much as using small impact shocks to break the taper loose.

    Alan
     
  13. May 23, 2009 #13

    bentprop

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    Sounds like you have the same as us here across the "ditch".
    But to get back to your mill,if it's still stuck,would chucking some penetrating oil down the drawbar hole help?Or,shock,horror,lightly heating with a soft flame?Just a thought.If a normal hammer doesn't shift it,I doubt a lead one would.Then again,The lead hammers are called "dead blow" hammers,so perhaps it's kill or cure :big:
    In actual fact,I have more problems keeping an MT IN the quill.On my drill press,it used to fall out regularly.An old engineer showed me the fix:Roll a piece of paper around the MT,sized so it doesn't overlap.then insert into quill.It hasn't fallen out since,despite much use/abuse.
     
  14. May 23, 2009 #14

    Maryak

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    tmuir,

    Remove the draw bar andsquirt some penetrene into the hole, (I'm not a fan of dewatering fluids WD40, CRC etc in this situation, because of the film forming additives in them). Replace the draw bar with a brass ended piece of steel which will just fit down the draw bar hole. Use hardwood blocks to chock up and support the head. Place a rag filled box on the mill table under the head. Take a 2lb hammer and give the steel end of the brass ended rod a good sharp blow.

    IMHO its no good tickling it, belt it. :eek: :eek:

    Hope this helps ??? ???

    Best Regards
    Bob
     
  15. May 23, 2009 #15

    ariz

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    I agree with Maryak

    and next time, tmuir, don't tighten (screw) the drawbar so much
    I suspect that this is the cause of your problem
    morse taper doesn't like a strong fit
     
  16. May 24, 2009 #16

    ken4570

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    Don't bother with dead blow hammers.
    On my Micro-Mark I unscrew the bolt a few turns, give it a good solid whack with a (calibrated) two pound hammer. Tappy-tap is not the answer
    (Not hard enough to destroy the mill tho.)
     
  17. May 26, 2009 #17

    Julian

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    The morse2 in my X1 does this every time. Probably cos I tighten it too hard. Unscrew drawbar two turns and one very sharp him with a standard hammer works every time. Very hard to kill a 90kg mill with a half kg hammer.

    Julian.
     
  18. May 26, 2009 #18

    SignalFailure

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    The first time I used a vertical mill I was shocked at how hard the drawbar had to be thumped to remove the chuck. A copper faced hammer was the weapon of choice equipped by the 'old hands' who used it. A good belting when it was really 'stuck' seemed to do it no harm at all :eek:
     
  19. May 27, 2009 #19

    dwentz

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    So have you had any success at getting it out?

    Dale

     

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