Horizontal Mill Engine From Kit

[Foozer]

Thanks Vernon.

Thanks Bill. Looks like 60 degrees. Wonder if it helps to warm it up a bit?

Thanks Arnold.

From your drawing pic looks like the bend is around 15 degrees. Its a taper on the two flats from 0.15 to 0.080. The 13 number is ?? so took it to mean bend the handle (half inch long?) 0.13 off center which is close to 14.7 degrees (15). Thinking 60 degrees will snap it at the bend point.

Good idea to make a test piece and see how the bend goes as wlindiii just mentioned.

And what is that mystery piece

Robert

 

[zeeprogrammer]

Thanks Bill. Very good idea there.

Robert: There's a drawing of the 'finished' part along with the dimensioned parts. I used that to get the 0.08. Protractor shows 60 degree. You can also tell from the picture of the engine that the handle has a severe bend. (See the 1st post...it has a link to the picture.) (Matter of fact...the 'book' says to bend the 'prescribed' 60. I didn't find any 60 'prescribed' :-\

Does have me worried. In fact...I doubt very much it will work! I was parting a piece of 1/4 brass and turned it down to a diameter less than 0.08. Then instead of finishing the cut...I just broke it off. Easy.

And what is that mystery piece

I don't know. That's what makes it a mystery.

 

[mklotz]

You must be filing backwards if it tended to unscrew. (ISTR you saying something about filing backwards for safety.) In the future, you can split the threaded holder like a collet and crank down on it to keep it from unscrewing.

Heat is highly recommended for bending such a small part. Brass is mostly copper and work hardens easily. Don't overheat it or you'll leach out all the zinc and the brass will turn a pinkish (coppery) color. Heat until a dull red in a darkened room. Let air cool or dunk in water if you're in a hurry.

Isabella? Sounds Italian. Is a bella engine, no?

 

[Foozer]

Thanks Bill. Very good idea there.

Robert: There's a drawing of the 'finished' part along with the dimensioned parts. I used that to get the 0.08. Protractor shows 60 degree. You can also tell from the picture of the engine that the handle has a severe bend. (See the 1st post...it has a link to the picture.) (Matter of fact...the 'book' says to bend the 'prescribed' 60. I didn't find any 60 'prescribed' :-\

Does have me worried. In fact...I doubt very much it will work! I was parting a piece of 1/4 brass and turned it down to a diameter less than 0.08. Then instead of finishing the cut...I just broke it off. Easy.

I don't know. That's what makes it a mystery.

Looking at Elmers 43 horizontal, no help there, its silent on that part. Shows that locking lever, ya that's a bend. I tell ya, I'd snap a couple before I got one good. I've spent the past few days cussing at brake tubing bending it for a tranny cooler install and thats easy stuff.

As Miss Cleo would say "I see more pieces upon your Shelf of Learning"

Think I'll go bend some brass now just to have something to throw into the neighbors yard See what some heat will do

Robert

 

[zeeprogrammer]

You must be filing backwards if it tended to unscrew. (ISTR you saying something about filing backwards for safety.) In the future, you can split the threaded holder like a collet and crank down on it to keep it from unscrewing.

Heat is highly recommended for bending such a small part. Brass is mostly copper and work hardens easily. Don't overheat it or you'll leach out all the zinc and the brass will turn a pinkish (coppery) color. Heat until a dull red in a darkened room. Let air cool or dunk in water if you're in a hurry.

Isabella? Sounds Italian. Is a bella engine, no?

Filing backwards or turning in a different direction. Didn't seem to matter. I tried both (all) ways. Didn't make sense to me...just had to deal with it. Keep it slow.

I'd wondered about splitting the holder. It would be like splitting the nuts I used to face some bolts...or that block of aluminum I split and used to trim the bolts for the indicator holders. I didn't think filing would create that much pressure. Certainly would've (should've) done that and used the lathe to taper. (I'll try that if the handle snaps off. ;D)

Goodie..you answered a couple of questions I was thinking about with respect to heating. Thanks for that. Time to make creme brulee!

Isabella...name of a friend's daughter. Don't tell my daughters...I'll get in trouble. (Not that it matters now...I'm going to be in plenty trouble come tomorrow. :big

 

[Foozer]

Goodie..you answered a couple of questions I was thinking about with respect to heating. Thanks for that. Time to make creme brulee!

Bent like taffy, no heat. Did 3 pieces 1/16, 3/32 and 5/32 rod. Nice and clean.. Go for it.

Robert

 

[zeeprogrammer]

Bent like taffy, no heat.

It wasn't you I didn't trust...it was me...so...

Took a piece out of my 'wall of learnings' and turned it down to 0.08 like the handle.
I wouldn't say 'like taffy' (in fact I took pliers to it) but it bent easily enough.

I'm thinking if you go too thin, it would snap instead. Can't try it now...I have a bent part. And before anyone suggests it...I don't have that many parts on my 'wall of learnings' yet. ;D I haven't been at it long enough.

Thanks all. I'll try the handle later...I just want to look at it for a while.

 

[arnoldb]

Zee, if you're scared it will break, do anneal it like Marv suggested - in any case it might have work hardened a bit from the turning and filing.
It should bend easily, but (from own experience), when you bend it, bend it ONCE - don't fiddle with trying to bend it back and forth to get it "just right"; then it will definitely break.
If you can somehow clamp it alongside a piece of wire (or something suitable) that's already bent to the correct angle, that will be a great help in judging how far to go.
Hope my 2 cents helps
Regards, Arnold

 

[zeeprogrammer]

It's a good 2 cents Arnold.
After my post I was still thinking about it and what Marv had said about work hardening. I may take my experiment and play with it some more.

Thanks. Oh and nice tip about setting up a reference.

 

[CrewCab]

Some good tips all round Zee, imho annealing and setting a reference so it's a "one shot" operation set the benchmark ............ 8) ................... good luck; .......... all eyes are on you now so ................. no pressure

and ................. Don't forget the video

CC

 

[zeeprogrammer]

As in maniacal... Rof} Rof} Rof} Rof} Rof}

The crank handle...

So we have two fellows demonstrating how brass can be bent.
Two fellows, and a third backing them up, suggesting annealing.

I suspect annealing would certainly work (the only variable being me).
But if I annealed it ...we would never know if bending would work or if the part was work hardened.

My wife would consider this pic 'divine compensation'...

But the story doesn't end there...no no...we must add insult to injury...or rather injury to insult...thumb slipped and the vise kept a piece of it. Now I really do need a band-aid. :big:

So now we know. Anneal the little booger.

 

[mklotz]

It's a cheap shot but, what the hell, you deserve it...

I TOLD YOU SO!

There, I feel better now.

From the book of wisdom of the Garaj Mahal...

"Experience does not have to be verified before utilizing it."

 

[vlmarshall]

BOOOOO Zeep, why didn't you anneal it?
That little handle was good-looking.

How's your thumb?

 

[b.lindsey]

Well darn....back to square one!! Hope the thumb heals quickly too.

Bill

 

[zeeprogrammer]

Well gee whiz...what a bunch of negative thinkers! :big:

Read between the lines...what I said was...

1) I know you guys 'told me so'....but...I didn't anneal it so I could prove you guys know what you're talking about and could say 'you told me so'. So that was for you.
2) I don't doubt there's more like me out there who 'just wanna know'..."would it really break?". I...not you...gave them the direct and conclusive answer. So that was for them.
3) Nyah. And that was for me. ;D

"Experience does not have to be verified before utilizing it."

That sounds an awful like "You don't need to see it to believe it."

I'm from Missouri. That's just a load of crap. :big: :big:

[EDIT: P.S. Thumb okay. Thanks.]
[Another EDIT: "I deserved it?" Ow. ]

 

[zeeprogrammer]

Speaking of Missouri...

In the past, several of you have tried to get me to grind my own cutting tools.
I made a run at it once or twice but was never satisfied. I just had no real idea of what the target was.

Well that may change.

I bought some pre-sharpened HSS cutting tools.
"Gasp...you did?! Surely you didn't. Tell us you didn't".
I did.

And now I have a reference to compare to. I had no idea these things were that sharp. Durn near made a matching wound on my other thumb.

So...now that I have something to 'see' and understand what sharp is...I can go about grinding.

Thank you. Thank you very much.

 

[rake60]

No losses Zee.
The lessons we remember longest are those self taught.

Rick

 

[Foozer]

Well gee whiz...what a bunch of negative thinkers! :big:


1) I know you guys 'told me so'....but...I didn't anneal it so I could prove you guys know what you're talking about and could say 'you told me so'. So that was for you.
2) I don't doubt there's more like me out there who 'just wanna know'..."would it really break?". I...not you...gave them the direct and conclusive answer. So that was for them.

Even annealing may not help. Sorta crank handled shape

Tried one with not heat, snapped right in two

Tried 2 with portion near base 0.080 extended, something for the bend to form in. Annealed, both cracked at the base.

Last try with longer section of ).080 kept the heat applied, cracked also.

At this point I be inclined to try a different shape or form a radius at the base to force the bend, ease the stress at the base.

Robert

 

[zeeprogrammer]

Thanks for the heads up Robert.

Did you heat, cool, and then bend?
Or, did you heat and bend while hot?

I was thinking about bending it while it was hot...using some pliers or needle nose...any suggestions how I might do that without putting marks on the part? I'm going to look for some pliers that don't have the ridges on the end.

Thanks.

[EDIT: P.S. You're supposed to be working on your ramstock/tailstock thingy. I can't remember...sorry.]

 

[vlmarshall]

Interesting... now I wanna try this, too. What type of brass?