Drawing selling and such

Discussion in 'The Break Room' started by gbritnell, Apr 11, 2014.

  1. Apr 11, 2014 #1

    gbritnell

    gbritnell

    gbritnell

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    Gentlemen,
    A fellow on another forum had a question about obtaining drawings for an engine. He got the usual answers but here is what I wrote.

    I understand copyright infringement and such but I have a question. If I buy a complete casting set with drawings for anything, engine, tool etc. and it sits on my shelf for years until I decide that I'm not going to build it and would like to sell it there seems to be no problem with this. I have never heard anyone say, " casting kit for sale but I can't sell the drawings with it because they are available from someone else".
    My point being if I purchased a set of drawings for something and then decide to sell said drawings where is the problem? As long as I'm not making copies and selling them there shouldn't be and issue. People buy magazines all the time and then sell them and never once have I heard, "you can't sell them because they're copyrighted". If this is the case then where do we draw the line about reselling items, drawings, toaster, cars or garden shovels?
    Asking someone to copy their set of drawings and sell them is wrong, I totally agree but selling something that you purchased shouldn't be a problem.
    gbritnell
     
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  2. Apr 11, 2014 #2

    pkastagehand

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    I would agree that since you didn't make more copies and sell them and you don't profit from them (sell for more than you paid) it shouldn't be a problem. But I don't know what the actual letter of the law is. It seems to me that it is sort of transferring ownership as opposed to "dealing" in illegally copyrighted material.

    Paul
     
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  3. Apr 11, 2014 #3

    GWRdriver

    GWRdriver

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    As a practical matter I don't think the letter of the law has much influence in this sort of thing because no one is going to pursue expensive legal action to chase after a model engineering drawing counterfeiter, they're just not. Over the years I have run across at least two flagrant duplicators of drawings (one) and castings (the other) and reported this to the British firm whose products were being counterfeited and the answer was there's not enough involved to bother with.

    As for drawings I think it goes without saying that reproduction of copyrighted work for profit, no matter how insignificant, is bad behavior. That being said, many of us, including myself, occasionally benefit from a one-off copying (for no fee) of a drawing no longer available and I doubt that will ever end. Another thing about drawings, which in many countries and circumstances is Law, is that a set of drawings conveys a design and by their purchase, the right to construct ONE of that item. If you want to construct two or more, legally, then a set of design drawings must be purchased, or a negotiated fee for the right to build more than one paid. I think the "castings with drawings" falls into this category. You have castings which build one item, and the drawings which convey the right to build one item. If sold as a package there should be no complaint, even if the fair market value has increased and you make a profit. You haven't deprived the designer and vendor of his original profit, which he was satisfied with at the time. He has made his asked-for shilling for one item and one item will be produced.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2014
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  4. Apr 11, 2014 #4

    kvom

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    It's completely legal to sell a drawing in the original form in which you purchased it, whether the castings are included or not.

    I bought Kozo's book for the plans for my A3 loco, and no one would dispute my right to sell the book to someone else. The fact that the plans are in a book vs. loose sheets is irrelevant.
     
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  5. Apr 12, 2014 #5

    Till

    Till

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    In most countries it depends on whether you sell it from your private use property or from your commercial use property.

    You usually buy a license to build one (or several) piece(s) of xyz and this includes using the plans. As a commercial user, you’re usually not allowed to pass this license on to someone else, even if you quit using the license.

    As a private user, you can sell everything you bought, and you can sell it in bits and pieces.
    You can sell the paper to person A,
    you can sell the castings to person B and
    you can sell the license to build one piece of xyz to person C.
     
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  6. Apr 12, 2014 #6

    GWRdriver

    GWRdriver

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    KVOM,
    I don't think anyone disputes that, I'm certainly not. I think the original question raised larger issues about the "rightness" of selling drawings under various circumstances. As for us, model engineers and live steamers, most of us are probably going to do whatever serves our private needs regardless. However I would be most upset if I discovered that someone had begun using my design and drawings, which they commissioned from me under the pretense of a one-off for personaI use, to produce a product for sale. But the reality would be what could I do about it? Nothing. The costs for even one "bad-dog" letter from a lawyer would outweigh any possible gain.
     
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  7. Apr 13, 2014 #7

    Tin Falcon

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    I see no problem here if you purchase anything under copy right from a legitimate source no problem selling it.
    Tin
     
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  8. Apr 13, 2014 #8

    Sshire

    Sshire

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    This falls under the "first sale doctrine"

    Excerpt here

    "The first-sale doctrine creates a basic exception to the copyright holder's distribution right. Once the work is lawfully sold or even transferred gratuitously, the copyright owner's interest in the material object in which the copyrighted work is embodied is exhausted. The owner of the material object can then dispose of it as he sees fit. Thus, one who buys a copy of a book is entitled to resell it, rent it, give it away, or destroy it. However, the owner of the copy of the book will not be able to make new copies of the book because the first-sale doctrine does not limit copyright owner's reproduction right. The rationale of the doctrine is to prevent the copyright owner from restraining the free alienability of goods. Without the doctrine, a possessor of a copy of a copyrighted work would have to negotiate with the copyright owner every time he wished to dispose of his copy. After the initial transfer of ownership of a legal copy of a copyrighted work, the first-sale doctrine exhausts copyright holder's right to control how ownership of that copy can be disposed of. For this reason, this doctrine is also referred to as "exhaustion rule.""
     
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