Bazmak-Making the acute tool sharpening system

[goldstar31]

Some shops consider diamond wheel for HSS bad taste.

Can't we give this 'affinity of carbon thing to iron' a rest? My knowledge of such matters has been trundled out since Sparey wrote about a pinch of diamond dust in the Amateurs Lathe way back - in the 1940's.

Frankly, it is something for those who have little to do but be contentious.
At the worst, a diamond disk whether it wears out or not is a matter of very small change. I spent more than a disk on a curry last night- and we all know how a curry behaves next morning:hDe:

Quite bluntly, if this is all that one's mind should be focussed, people should be pitied or laughed at.

In practical terms in what is NOT a factory but a HOME workshop, it will be far cheaper than going out and buying a series of abrasive wheels as an alternative.

Lets get on with the real practicalities- and avoid the ethereal views of a minority

And a Merry Christmas to All our readers

Norm

 

[bazmak]

Don't know what you mean by bad taste Niels,if you mean its not recognised engineering then I say do what suits and so far its far superior to a stone wheel
both on HSS and Carbide.Less wear and trueing of the wheel and far more accurate.I wont tell anyone if you dont

 

[Niels Abildgaard]

Hello Bazmak

Some of my friends make a living from sharpening and change stone/wheel for carbide or HSS.I have a diamond wheel on a grinder used for modifying square carbide and nothing else and then a silizium carbide stone on another grinder that sharpens both HSS and carbide.Electric motors/grinders are cheaper than good grinding wheels.

 

[Blogwitch]

Baz,

When you do a lot of HSS sharpening and reshaping on a diamond wheel, the wheel will tend to clog. I used to do a lot of HSS reshaping at work, a lot more use than you will be doing, and the diamond surface impregnated wheels would only last about a month or so before being thrown away because of clogged areas on the wheels.

But for general purpose home use where it is only occasionally used, then I don't think you will come across any major problems, except for the bonding on the wheel wearing to a stage where you have to trim it true again. That should be one of your major concerns

That is why I suggested a throw away diamond lapping plate clamped to the side of a normal 6" wheel. One of those should last at least a year for both types of material before being thrown, and no truing up needed. What you are spending on your one wheel would most probably buy enough lapping plates to last for a few years.

But anyway, you have gone for your own system so for the types of wheels you are using, for HSS, you should be using a CBN grinding wheel and for carbide, a diamond wheel, so maybe buy one of each and swap over when the material for sharpening changes.

John

 

[Foozer]

Made 2 swivel discs 60d x 9 thk each mortised The lower one to fit the adjustable guide and the top one to accept the tool block holder.

Now that's perty - Like that mortise bit, only have to hold it down, rather than *cough* hold it down 'And' against the fence like the contraption I made . . .

 

[bazmak]

Niels and blogwitch,you are both correct and I bow to your superior wisdom/experience,However I am just playing about my only aim
is sharpen/resurrect a few old drills and hopefully put an edge to a few
endmills.As with the gearcutting its just a learning curve,trial and error
One thought to combine the 2 would be to cut a small rack and pinion
and fit to maybe a small mill table for the X axis feed ?

 

[bazmak]

Did anybody spot the error with my last post.I was using the wrong side of
the wheel and grinding the drills etc on the upstroke.However I am still playing
about and finding problems in order to improve with design changes
I had 5 thou play on the toolholder tenon so made a new one in brass
slightly larger section and a much better fit.I made a new Guide fence
more robust and machined as dovetail to make it captive on the fence
Also graduated the lower disc etc .Lots more to do as problems surface
but so far have sharpended a no of drills and a couple of end mills 2 and 4
flutes . Coming good

 

[goldstar31]

Barry, grinding on the 'upstroke' creates an 'arris' or 'wire' which is the desiderata in the world of woodworkers and in my humble opinion no bad thing. I can recall my late father removing the arris from his hollow ground cut throat razors after stropping on a leather belt which had been impregnated with corroded lead by the palm of his hand. However-- however, a play in a tool and cutter grinder might make the cutting edge rounded by the upstroke method. This is when the old microscope which ALL good machinists has as part and parcel their being. My 7 year old grandson is getting his first for Christmas!

A good old shufti-scope can be a boon. Me, I have a pair of surgeon's binoculars! So carry on- there is a precedent to confound the old wife's tales.
Cheers

Norm

 

[BaronJ]

Hi Baz,

Nice work !. I'm keeping out of the diamond V HSS argument

I've used carbide router bits for all sorts of applications and in general they work very well particularly on brasses and bronze.

As far as grinding the drill from the wrong side of the wheel, you will get a harrage which ever way you do it. I have a strip of an old leather belt that I use to remove it, indeed I've been known to strop chisels in the palm of my hand, which is just me being too lazy to find the bit of leather that is hiding somewhere on the bench.

 

[goldstar31]

Hi Baz,

Nice work !. I'm keeping out of the diamond V HSS argument

.

I'm even in some doubt whether anyone reads the post anyway.


'A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still'

As one of the three Goldstars left from my days with the Royal Flying Corps-

Nil illigitimi Carborundum , Per Ardua Asbestos and sic blether

Norm

Not a bony-----------------Just to keep in context bought two lots of 'fawkandles' for my future Eccentrics

 

[bazmak]

The small arris may be considered beneficial to some woodworking tools
ie a scraper,but the main problem in grinding on the upstroke is that the grinding tries to lift the tool.The small amount of play in the slides is
the bigger problem.I am now happy with the toolholder mortise/tenon
but the dovetail slide has about 2 thou.Will try to fit grubscrews and nylon plugs to tension the slide

 

[goldstar31]

I can understand the problem. Why not use one of these epoxy resins like Devcon or even a metal based car body filler to take up the slack.

My saddle wear on my Myford is actually Turcite-d. It was applied professionally when the bed was slideways ground.

It's another idea

Cheers

Norman

 

[bazmak]

Lots of bits and bobs ordered from china.First to arrive was a 6"dia x 1" wide
diamond wheel.It ran out of true and the various plastic adaptors were a joke
so I mad an alum adaptor now runs true but out of balance,due I think
to
not having similar weight wheels on each end of the grinder.Still playing
Also improved the dovetail slide and the table locking h andles

 

[goldstar31]

Morning Baz! I'm impressed. My progress report mentions that I have a 1" wide CBN wheel which is drilled to presumably balance things.
I bought enough alloy levers for the job but apart from some rough cutting out of sheet metal, that is it. Other family and Christmas commitments looming, are two reasons.

I noticed 'en passant' that someone was discussing a gadget to balance wheels. Maybe someone can trace it. I'm afraid that I have too many other things 'that MUST be done.

Meantime, I'm enjoying your reports

Norm

 

[bazmak]

Lots of playing about to do but if anyone has any advise on balancing
then please post

 

[BaronJ]

Hello Baz,

One way of getting an idea of where and how much a wheel is out of balance is to sit it on a pin point at its very centre and mark with a felt tip the heavy point. Then use balls of clay or plasticine to balance it. Weigh the clay and drill a hole of equivelent weight in one of the clamp washers. Place the clamp washer with the hole nearest the heavy spot. With a bit of fiddling you should be able to get quite close to balance.

If you machine a disc with a raised plug to fit the wheel with a small dimple in the centre on the other side so that you can sit it all on a point. I've used a scriber clamped in the vice to do this in the past.

If you think that the other end of the grinder is causing trouble, then take the wheels off and run the motor without any. I would be more inclined to suggest that it may be the actual rotor in the motor that could be the cause, or possibly a bad bearing.

I have a three phase motor that vibrates far more than it should due to a bit of cooling blade that has broken off the rotor casting at one end. This really needs to be dynamically re-balanced, but I haven't got the kit to do it.

 

[bazmak]

Thank you for your thoughts Baron.The grinder itself runs true even
with the small cup wheel on one end.Replacing the original wheel on the opposite side may help,but I summize I will have to balance the wheel
Looked at Utube with the wheel rolling on the a pair of knife edges but
my thoughts are it may be easier in the lathe between centres.Also instead of drilling a no of holes to lighten the heavy side it will probably be better/more aspthetic to fix small weights to the light side.TBC

 

[bazmak]

more progress.The new wheel was way out of balance.I had planned to set
up between centres in the lathe,but the grinder itself was very free wheeling
and after a couple of test spins it was obvious where the heavy spot was
Drilled and tapped M4 and fitted a screw and a couple of nuts.Not enough
so made a couple of brass washers.Much improved but now too much
All good now I know the min/max so will play about some more
The eccentric system has a 25x3 flat guide rail slotted with a top hat section for a sliding stop.Now I have made the rail as a dovetail it was easy to make
a stop without slotting the rail.Rome wasn't built in a day and a house is built
brick by brick.Getting there TBC

 

[BaronJ]

Gd Morning Baz,

Looking good.
I like the way you have done that stop.

Fine on the way that you have done the balance. As long as it runs smoothly without vibration that's good.

 

[Foozer]

Don't know Dad - Just my two cents here - -Thinking drilling some lightening holes in the wheel clamp washers (purposely out of balance) then static balance - - I just use a little dab of non-harding gasket sealant to hold to sorta hold the pieces together on a shaft - adjust the clamp(s) till the wheel stops stopping at the same spot . . . Witness mark and back to the grinder it goes - Seems to work...

Drilling a hole in the wheel is akin to drilling a hole in a bell, just doesn't have the same ring tone to it . .