Are my lathe tools strange?

[Ryan]

This tool set came with the lathe but I can't identify most of them in terms of geometry. 4th from left is a 60° external threading, no8 is 60° internal thread, no9 is grooving/parting.

The first one seems like it might be left-hand turning and facing, but I don't recognise any of the others nor have I seen this style of holder and carbide insert on any catalogue. Doesn't seem like I have any right hand tools at all.

Perhaps I should get a new set with more readily available inserts? I was thinking about some keep tool holders and then getting some good quality brand name inserts.

 

[jwcnc1911]

They appear to be home made for inserts some one had a run on at work. I recognize all those inserts but not the holders. Next Friday at work I'll tell you what the inserts are. Those are some fairly unique inserts...5 and 7 look like Walter Tigertec inserts. #1 looks like an Iscar Trigon of some flavor.

 

[OrangeAlpine]

I think the second holder is for external turning. Hard to tell with no insert. The rest (except for the threading tool you I.D.ed) are boring tool holders. The next to last is for internal threading.

Bill

 

[rcfreak177]

From left to right

1, External turning and facing, Insert is a W style eg, WNMG

https://www.google.com.au/search?q=...TUigez94G4Aw&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=1366&bih=643


2, External roughing (heavy duty for large cuts) Insert is a S style eg, SNMG

https://www.google.com.au/search?q=...Ka-SiQe25oAg&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=1366&bih=643



3, External roughing and facing also for machining 45 degree chamfer, Insert is also a S style
4, External threading
5, Not sure on this one, possibly a facing tool, S style insert
6, External turning and facing, W style insert
7, External facing tool, also can be used for 45 degree chamfer, S style insert
8, Internal threading tool
9, Looks to be an external parting/grooving tool, possibly a face grooving tool, would need to see a front view to determine this

There are many styles of inserts out there, most of the time the lettering is to an ISO standard, generally the first letter of the insert type is the shape.

http://www.hsmworks.com/docs/cncbook/en/#Ch08_InsertDesignations

Here is a picture of several different types
http://www.carbideanddiamondtooling.com/S-T-V-W-Shape-Premium-Quality-Carbide-Inserts_p_748.html

yes they are an unusual bunch of tools but typically tools 4,6,7,8 and 9 will get you out of most situations

I hope this helps a bit.

Baz.

 

[rodw]

This looks very similar to the first insert tooling I purchased



I got these from Hare and Forbes here in Aus but they don't sell them any more replacing them with this

http://www.machineryhouse.com.au/L0099#

It was pretty poor quality and you could only buy inserts as a set of 10 and I subsequently upgraded to some ISO insert tooling and never looked at them again. I sold them with my old lathe.

 

[Tin Falcon]

MHO hard to beat the sets from http://www.arwarnerco.com/
Higher price than imports but high quality and reliability.

I would say use what you have if it works keep using it if not look for a replacement.
Tin

 

[Ryan]

rcf: that clears things up a lot. So no1 and no6 should do exactly the same job? am I going to need a left cut facing/turning tool?

rodw: what makes a better quality tool holder? I presume if you get half decent ISO holders from anywhere then you have a choice of using whatever quality insert from whatever manufacturer you like?

Im reading the army lathe document which has a diagram showing separate hss tools for roughing, finishing and facing. am I to understand that with indexable carbide tools, you have one that can do all three jobs?

 

[Jasonb]

Not sure what part of the world you are in Ryan but in the UK Amadeal sell these sets and replacement tips. In the US I think Shars do them.

The tips are almost unique to these far eastern tool holders so hard to find, see my replys in this thread

http://www.model-engineer.co.uk/forums/postings.asp?th=76422

J

 

[rcfreak177]

rcf: that clears things up a lot. So no1 and no6 should do exactly the same job? am I going to need a left cut facing/turning tool?



Im reading the army lathe document which has a diagram showing separate hss tools for roughing, finishing and facing. am I to understand that with indexable carbide tools, you have one that can do all three jobs?

Depending on the type of work you are doing in regards to having a left handed tool, I generally don't use one. I simply turn the part around in the chuck.

Tool #6 is specifically designed to do roughing,finishing and facing, be aware though the insert that is fitted in the picture is a high rake type, used on aluminium, Derlin, and many types of soft materials, it will wear quickly if used on steel.

Also on my manual lathe I use the same tool for roughing and finishing, but in saying that on my cnc lathe I will use one for roughing/facing and another for finishing.

Everybody has different ways of doing things so I guess your best bet will to experiment and find the method you are most comfortable with.

If you are in the market for new tooling the link Tin posted for you looks good.
Nice tools and the option with double ended tooling could be handy.

Have fun and stay safe.
Baz.

 

[rodw]

rodw: what makes a better quality tool holder?

Inserts that don't chip, clamping system that does not let go, the ability to buy the inserts for each tool separately, not with a heap of inserts you don't need.

I presume if you get half decent ISO holders from anywhere then you have a choice of using whatever quality insert from whatever manufacturer you like?

That is the problem.. If they are not an ISO insert, you can't buy the inserts where ever you like! Some of these type of tools may not be ISO.

This will give you an idea of the price difference. NOte these three tools all use the same ISO insert and you get 10 with the kit

https://www.machineryhouse.com.au/L450

More recently I buy my tooling from http://www.ctctools.biz/servlet/StoreFront

But you need to know what you are buying and it is confusing to get your head around the different holders and inserts that go with them.

Despite all of this, if you can get some inserts for the tools you have they will get you going and save you having to buy seldom used tools eg. like threading.

I think you really only need about 4 tools. Left and right turning, a neutral tool (that pokes straight out) and a boring bar but they do breed after a while.

More recently, I have been using CCMT tooling fro CTC tools which allow me to turn and face without changing tools at the expense of one insert cutting face (2 instead of 3 on the ones in the link above.)

 

[Ryan]

I have someone helping me out who knows how to grind hss tool bits. I use these tool post holders which have a 14 mm opening:
http://www.machineryhouse.com.au/L280A

Should I simply get some half inch HSS blanks and mount them directly or do I need to get smaller blanks ( which are cheaper) and make some sort of adapter? does it depend on how heavy I want to cut which determines the best shank size?

 

[Tin Falcon]

IMHO a quick change tool system is one of the best , most used upgrades on can make on a lathe . here is the USA set can be had for around $100 -$600 depending on size and quality.

Should I simply get some half inch HSS blanks

To get started no.

do I need to get smaller blanks

Yes

make some sort of adapter?

for 1/4 to 3/8 or metric equivalent no. For 1/8 yes make an adapter from 3/8 steel.

does it depend on how heavy I want to cut ?

It is determined by the work . the size of the lathe and the power of the lathe. In a perfect world or should I say a production stand point one should take minimal number of cuts 1-3 rough cuts and a finish cut.

In the home shop part of the game is learning and knowing how much is taken off on each cut and planning the next we are also experimenting with speeds and feed to find what makes a good finish.
Most hobby lathes will not take a real deep cut .
if you have a 10" lathe go for it.

which determines the best shank size?

In general the shank size all goes back to lathe size and work size.

I have several lathes that range from 5" to 9" swing. 2.5" to 4.5" for the Brits.

if I had to pick one size to use or start with for HSS i would go 1/4 " although 5/16 is a nice middle of the road size and 3/8 is stiffer.
In insert tooling 3/8 is a good size.

1/4 tools area lot easier and faster to grind. as well as cheaper.
now remember the laws of scaling . a cutter is a 3-D object.
so a 3/8 cutter you are grinding 3 times as much as a 1/4 and a half in bit you are grinding away 8 times the material vs a 1/4 in bit.

for grooving buy 1/18 bits and make a cradle form mild steel.
for form tools I use 1/2 in bits.

the advantage of bigger bits( 1/2) is you can have an inch sticking out of the tool holder and be fine a 1/4 bit only 1/2 in unsupported.

Also spend the extra for 5-8% cobalt. harder to grind but lats longer.

I have someone helping me out who knows how to grind hss tool bits

Ask your friend his opinion he may have a size he likes. It will avoid the what did you buy this size for. they are to.....
if the guy is teaching you he likely has experience. let him teach ask him questions.

Tin

 

[gus]

MHO hard to beat the sets from http://www.arwarnerco.com/
Higher price than imports but high quality and reliability.

I would say use what you have if it works keep using it if not look for a replacement.
Tin

Hi Tin Falcon,

I bought two Warner HSS Boring Bar----3/8 and 1/2 and both gave me good returns. Been boring holes and finished holes had no taper and were checked with China Holtest Inside Micrometers. Vernier Calipers gave me odd readings. The Holtest was sure fire.
Wished I had the Warners with me when I bored the cylinder of the Aeromodel Engine. Plan to stock up on the HSS Inserts which stood up very well after so many holes. Also plan to buy some Warner HSS long bits and get rid of the Chinese bits.


Regards,

Gus.

Had a good day fishing.Landed a 6 pounder Snapper that gave a great fight.
Will make good sunday steam fish dinner and soup.

 

[Ryan]

Anyone tried these? http://www.machineryhouse.com.au/L0003
currently it's the best price in my location

 

[gus]

Been buying from ASTM---M2 HSS Bits LMS and they stood up well.

The Grade T-15 HSS inserts from LMS stood up very well too. Been boring very smooth and accurate holes with them. Holes were parallel as cheched with the China Holtest Inside Micrometer
from Arceuro UK which cost me a bomb.

 

[Ryan]

More recently, I have been using CCMT tooling fro CTC tools which allow me to turn and face without changing tools at the expense of one insert cutting face (2 instead of 3 on the ones in the link above.)

How do you find the quality of the CTC tool holders? H&F charge double the price for seemingly similar quality tool holders.

 

[rodw]

How do you find the quality of the CTC tool holders? H&F charge double the price for seemingly similar quality tool holders.

Ain't that the truth? I don't think in use there is any difference in quality. I have been buying stuff fom CTC since January and keep going back. In general, I would say they are better quality than some of the other stuff I have sourced from EBay sellers. I have bought toolholders from H&F when I want stuff now not next week.

Take the time to study up on insert nomenclature so you understand what you are buying from CTC is my only tip. Eg. What does this code mean?

 

[Mechanicboy]

They appear to be home made for inserts some one had a run on at work. I recognize all those inserts but not the holders. Next Friday at work I'll tell you what the inserts are. Those are some fairly unique inserts...5 and 7 look like Walter Tigertec inserts. #1 looks like an Iscar Trigon of some flavor.

The tools is not homemade, it is product from China. I considered buying lathe tools same as the picture showed in the tread # 1. Then I found out that it was not expected that they should be of good quality and inserts are not easy to obtain since the inserts is not of ISO standard. Now i has the Sandvik lathe tools.

 

[trev1]

Anyone tried these? http://www.machineryhouse.com.au/L0003
currently it's the best price in my location

I have some of the toolmaster hss from harey forbes , .pretty soft , i wouldn't buy it again.:fan: Find some sutton or p and n . Costs more now, but less in the long run.

 

[Ryan]

speaking of Harey Forbes. I have this tool post http://www.machineryhouse.com.au/L280 any idea if it is the Dixon T00 style?