A small steam engine
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Krown Kustoms
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Beautiful work, great job!
-B-
-B-
Thad Swarfburn III
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Firebird, nice work and thank you for such extensive documentation.
SandyC, thanks for taking the time to write up such excellent info - I learned a lot from your post.
Still a long way off from finishing my first, but this stuff is terrifically inspirational.
Matt
SandyC, thanks for taking the time to write up such excellent info - I learned a lot from your post.
Still a long way off from finishing my first, but this stuff is terrifically inspirational.
Matt
Hi
Thank you all very much and thank you to all those that have helped along the way :bow: :bow: :bow:
Now I have a bit of a problem, scratch.gif scratch.gif do I do all the mods that have been suggested by Sandy C which I have no doubt will make it run better and more efficiently or do I leave it as it is for now and use all that valuable information and help when I build the next one. I don't have any more copper pipe in stock at the moment and I'm thinking if I strip it down to make alterations will it look as good when I have finished.
:noidea: :noidea: :noidea:
Cheers
Rich
Thank you all very much and thank you to all those that have helped along the way :bow: :bow: :bow:
Now I have a bit of a problem, scratch.gif scratch.gif do I do all the mods that have been suggested by Sandy C which I have no doubt will make it run better and more efficiently or do I leave it as it is for now and use all that valuable information and help when I build the next one. I don't have any more copper pipe in stock at the moment and I'm thinking if I strip it down to make alterations will it look as good when I have finished.
:noidea: :noidea: :noidea:
Cheers
Rich
Beautiful :bow:
Thank you for such a clear and detailed log - I am so impressed with it 8)
I have been more interested in stirling and hot air engines because steam seems messy
but I think you have changed my mind and I'd love to build something similar some day...
I am very impressed with your silver soldering - having never tried it yet, you make it look so easy :-\
Thank you for such a clear and detailed log - I am so impressed with it 8)
I have been more interested in stirling and hot air engines because steam seems messy
but I think you have changed my mind and I'd love to build something similar some day...I am very impressed with your silver soldering - having never tried it yet, you make it look so easy :-\
SandyC
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;D ;D
Well done Rich, that certainly got your burner working a lot better.
Suggestion if I may: -
Rather than go head long in to changing everything/anything on my suggestions list, it would certainly pay you to run it as is a few times and make carefull observations of exactly what is happening.
I noticed several things whilst watching your video, some of which could have one or more reasons/solutions.
E.G. shortly after starting the engine speed dropped quite a bit... WHY?
Was this due to lack of steam?... I did notice a pressure drop... if so how do you solve this?
and what are ALL the implications of any changes made?
Or was this due to Back pressure in the exhaust? (possibly due to water build up in the oil separator partially blocking the exhaust inlet from the engine).
If it was this then what are the probable causes for this? and what is the best way to resolve the problem?... indeed, can it be solved in this instance, without major surgery, or are there conflicting reasons for it happening? ( I can think of at least one of these).
Or was it due to lubrication (or the lack of it) somewhere?
I also observed that the top cover on the oil separator was actually lifting at regular intervals, but did not actually observe any clean steam exiting from the top of the funnel.
What do you feel is causing this? and how can it be best solved?... again, I can think of/see possible reasons for this not being totally solvable with the setup you currently have.
I am not for one minute suggesting that things cannot be improved Rich (my suggestions list follows standard steam practice) but this is an ideal time to really analyse the dynamic operation of your plant and then think about the possible cause and effect of certain characteristics... followed by remedial action/s if deemed worthwhile.
Spend some time with it, take carefull notes of your observations, then use my list as a guide and try to pick out which one/s could be the cause/solution then try altering one thing at a time... run it again and compare notes between results.
Some items on my list are inter related... I won't tell you which at the moment, see if you can work out which ones they are... and why? : :'( :big: :big: and I will tell you if you are correct. ;D ;D I think you will learn a great deal more by doing it this way rather than changing many things at once.
Keep up the great work.
Best regards.
Sandy. ;D ;D
Well done Rich, that certainly got your burner working a lot better.
Suggestion if I may: -
Rather than go head long in to changing everything/anything on my suggestions list, it would certainly pay you to run it as is a few times and make carefull observations of exactly what is happening.
I noticed several things whilst watching your video, some of which could have one or more reasons/solutions.
E.G. shortly after starting the engine speed dropped quite a bit... WHY?
Was this due to lack of steam?... I did notice a pressure drop... if so how do you solve this?
and what are ALL the implications of any changes made?
Or was this due to Back pressure in the exhaust? (possibly due to water build up in the oil separator partially blocking the exhaust inlet from the engine).
If it was this then what are the probable causes for this? and what is the best way to resolve the problem?... indeed, can it be solved in this instance, without major surgery, or are there conflicting reasons for it happening? ( I can think of at least one of these).
Or was it due to lubrication (or the lack of it) somewhere?
I also observed that the top cover on the oil separator was actually lifting at regular intervals, but did not actually observe any clean steam exiting from the top of the funnel.
What do you feel is causing this? and how can it be best solved?... again, I can think of/see possible reasons for this not being totally solvable with the setup you currently have.
I am not for one minute suggesting that things cannot be improved Rich (my suggestions list follows standard steam practice) but this is an ideal time to really analyse the dynamic operation of your plant and then think about the possible cause and effect of certain characteristics... followed by remedial action/s if deemed worthwhile.
Spend some time with it, take carefull notes of your observations, then use my list as a guide and try to pick out which one/s could be the cause/solution then try altering one thing at a time... run it again and compare notes between results.
Some items on my list are inter related... I won't tell you which at the moment, see if you can work out which ones they are... and why? :
:'( :big: :big: and I will tell you if you are correct. ;D ;D I think you will learn a great deal more by doing it this way rather than changing many things at once.Keep up the great work.
Best regards.
Sandy. ;D ;D
thezetecman
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Really really enjoyed reading your post.
Very nice work and write up.
What camera do you use you get very nice close up pictures?
Very nice work and write up.
What camera do you use you get very nice close up pictures?
Hi
Thank you Paolo, Eskimobob & thezetecman.
Zetecman, I use a sony cybershot DSC-S85. I bought this camera 7 or 8 years ago and was very expensive at the time, around £500.00. It is 4.1 million pixels with carl zeiss lens and 6 times optical zoom + the usual macro facility. It uses sony's own memory stick. Of course prices have dropped considerably since then with cameras of 10 million pixels costing less than half that. However I have tried several other cameras but can't get the same quality as the sony. I'm no expert on cameras but I'm told some of the quality comes from the way sony captures images and the way they are stored????? I use a fuji finepix Z2 for video.
Now then Sandy,
I have been studying all you have said very closely and I have made some observations and carried out a couple of experiments. I noticed that although the engine ran there seemed to be some water getting through even when the engine was hot. First experiment was to reduce the amount of water in the boiler. I had been filling to about 75%, I reduced this to about 66% (2/3) more room for steam. It was an improvement. Then I tried it with lamp oil in the burner instead of meths. I understand lamp oil has a higher calorific value than meths. Once again an improvement and also lamp oil lasts longer. Finally I tweaked the adjustment on the safety valve and upped the pressure from 10psi to 15 psi, another noticeable improvement. A question here, do you think a steam dome would improve things??? This was all carried out Sunday afternoon, no photos I'm afraid. Now on to things mechanical. Tonight I made a couple of ally columns, one for the lubricator and one for the separator. They are both 0.6 inches high, the lubricator is 3/8 dia and the one for the separator 1/2 dia. I see what you mean about the base acting as a heat sink so lifting them up should improve things. I can now remake the pipes ( if the originals won't take to being altered I will make new ones) as short as possible and then lag them. Then run again and see what happens.
Cheers
Rich
Thank you Paolo, Eskimobob & thezetecman.
Zetecman, I use a sony cybershot DSC-S85. I bought this camera 7 or 8 years ago and was very expensive at the time, around £500.00. It is 4.1 million pixels with carl zeiss lens and 6 times optical zoom + the usual macro facility. It uses sony's own memory stick. Of course prices have dropped considerably since then with cameras of 10 million pixels costing less than half that. However I have tried several other cameras but can't get the same quality as the sony. I'm no expert on cameras but I'm told some of the quality comes from the way sony captures images and the way they are stored????? I use a fuji finepix Z2 for video.
Now then Sandy,
I have been studying all you have said very closely and I have made some observations and carried out a couple of experiments. I noticed that although the engine ran there seemed to be some water getting through even when the engine was hot. First experiment was to reduce the amount of water in the boiler. I had been filling to about 75%, I reduced this to about 66% (2/3) more room for steam. It was an improvement. Then I tried it with lamp oil in the burner instead of meths. I understand lamp oil has a higher calorific value than meths. Once again an improvement and also lamp oil lasts longer. Finally I tweaked the adjustment on the safety valve and upped the pressure from 10psi to 15 psi, another noticeable improvement. A question here, do you think a steam dome would improve things??? This was all carried out Sunday afternoon, no photos I'm afraid. Now on to things mechanical. Tonight I made a couple of ally columns, one for the lubricator and one for the separator. They are both 0.6 inches high, the lubricator is 3/8 dia and the one for the separator 1/2 dia. I see what you mean about the base acting as a heat sink so lifting them up should improve things. I can now remake the pipes ( if the originals won't take to being altered I will make new ones) as short as possible and then lag them. Then run again and see what happens.
Cheers
Rich
arnoldb
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Rich, I've been following excellent your build with much interest - and a lot of awe!
If I may make an observation on your latest progress, however....
You have in effect added heat-sinks to the system; the grooved aluminium studs will cool down the components and steam; exactly the opposite of what I think you need for the lubricator...
As the lubricator is on the in-coming steam line, you don't want to cool it; in fact, if you can insulate it even better to keep incoming steam to the engine hotter. For the separator - after the engine, you do need cooling.
Apologies if this is out of place...
Regards, Arnold
If I may make an observation on your latest progress, however....
You have in effect added heat-sinks to the system; the grooved aluminium studs will cool down the components and steam; exactly the opposite of what I think you need for the lubricator...
As the lubricator is on the in-coming steam line, you don't want to cool it; in fact, if you can insulate it even better to keep incoming steam to the engine hotter. For the separator - after the engine, you do need cooling.
Apologies if this is out of place...
Regards, Arnold
Rich, that is absoultely fantastic. A proper steam engine ... so much better on steam than on air aren't they.
Yes, maybe it would make more of a difference with some sort of insulating material between the lubricator & separator and the base plate rather than aluminium. As Arnold said, won't that aluminium now take the heat away and dissipate it into the air with the large surface area of the fins?
I noticed on an old toy mamod I had, it actually superheated the steam. Because the pipe from boiler to inlet of engine was quite long, they must have felt it necessary to run it through the firebox to dry it out.
The other mamod traction engine I had just hada very short pipe to the engine so didn't really affect it. I have another engine my mersey models that my grandad gave me, this one has quite a length of pipe to the engine and no superheating, I seem to remember that spurting a lot of hot oil / water out of the chimney at first though.
Nick
Yes, maybe it would make more of a difference with some sort of insulating material between the lubricator & separator and the base plate rather than aluminium. As Arnold said, won't that aluminium now take the heat away and dissipate it into the air with the large surface area of the fins?
I noticed on an old toy mamod I had, it actually superheated the steam. Because the pipe from boiler to inlet of engine was quite long, they must have felt it necessary to run it through the firebox to dry it out.
The other mamod traction engine I had just hada very short pipe to the engine so didn't really affect it. I have another engine my mersey models that my grandad gave me, this one has quite a length of pipe to the engine and no superheating, I seem to remember that spurting a lot of hot oil / water out of the chimney at first though.
Nick
Hi Arnold, Nick
Yes I agree with what you have both said. I figured that by lifting the lubricator and separator up off the base would be an improvement and is about the best I can get it for now. Shortening and then lagging the pipes is the next step. I think I will call a halt to the mods at that stage. After that I feel a serious rebuild and re design would be the only practical way forward. This is my first steam engine so much has had to be learned, once again I thank all the members of this forum for their help :bow: :bow: The knowledge gained will hopefully make the next engine even better. It will be the weekend now before I can get anything else done, I'll post any progress then.
Cheers
Rich
Yes I agree with what you have both said. I figured that by lifting the lubricator and separator up off the base would be an improvement and is about the best I can get it for now. Shortening and then lagging the pipes is the next step. I think I will call a halt to the mods at that stage. After that I feel a serious rebuild and re design would be the only practical way forward. This is my first steam engine so much has had to be learned, once again I thank all the members of this forum for their help :bow: :bow: The knowledge gained will hopefully make the next engine even better. It will be the weekend now before I can get anything else done, I'll post any progress then.
Cheers
Rich
SandyC
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;D
Rich,
Just to let you know... I have not forgotten you and your questions.
I am doing a quite detailed write up for you and the guy's explaining quite a lot of things but I am also trying to keep it in as simple terms as possible,(steam stuff can get quite HEAVY) as a result it is taking quite a lot of time.
Fear not... I will post it just as soon as I can.
Best regards.
SandyC ;D ;D
Rich,
Just to let you know... I have not forgotten you and your questions.
I am doing a quite detailed write up for you and the guy's explaining quite a lot of things but I am also trying to keep it in as simple terms as possible,(steam stuff can get quite HEAVY) as a result it is taking quite a lot of time.
Fear not... I will post it just as soon as I can.
Best regards.
SandyC ;D ;D
