Setting up a VFD?
- Thread starter lazylathe
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Help Support Home Model Engine Machinist Forum:
The circuit I posted was done so to give one an idea on how it can be done. Obviously it (and all internal components) need to be matched or modified to the VFD in question.The circuit's purpose is to deliver (switch on and off) power to a VFD. Obviously it is not designed to switch the motor on and off. Once the VFD is on, the VFD controls themselves are used to power the motor.
Don1966
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Swede I undertook what you were trying to do, but less knowledgable people don't, the 240 volt output on the circuit confuses people less knowledgable. Connecting this to a drive for and emergency stop is what it can be used for as is. To make it a start stop requires more auxillary contacts to start stop of the drive, since the drive gives you low voltage to control itself it makes this a lot safer for remote start stop control.
Regards Don
Regards Don
I thought one of the original questions was how to provide power to a VFD. Short of plugging a VFD into a power source and unplugging when you are done, or simply leaving it on all the time, this is one way to do it. The contactor also allows auxiliary equipment like lights, coolant pumps, etc, to be powered on and off.
I posted it as additional information, not as a solution to a particular problem. Obviously, components need to be matched, and probably most importantly, whoever engineers and works with higher voltage equipment best understand the systems.
I'll let it go now. FWIW, the pages I linked have a lot of qualifying text and hopefully helpful information for those who seek to work with these devices.
Regards,
Kurt
I posted it as additional information, not as a solution to a particular problem. Obviously, components need to be matched, and probably most importantly, whoever engineers and works with higher voltage equipment best understand the systems.
I'll let it go now. FWIW, the pages I linked have a lot of qualifying text and hopefully helpful information for those who seek to work with these devices.
Regards,
Kurt
J
JorgensenSteam
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Kurt-
It is very good information, but only applies in a general sense to VFD connections, not the particular catalog number mentioned, which was 120V input, and 240 volt, 3-phase output.
My only concern was someone using the diagram literally, which in this case would not be good.
Sharing information is always good, but those who ask for electrical information should realize that as far as power connections, there is only one correct input and output connection for any given catalog number, and the wiring diagrams I have seen on this post and many others do not apply to the particular situation.
Just a bit of a safety issue, not a personal thing, all information is appreciated I am sure by all.
It is very good information, but only applies in a general sense to VFD connections, not the particular catalog number mentioned, which was 120V input, and 240 volt, 3-phase output.
My only concern was someone using the diagram literally, which in this case would not be good.
Sharing information is always good, but those who ask for electrical information should realize that as far as power connections, there is only one correct input and output connection for any given catalog number, and the wiring diagrams I have seen on this post and many others do not apply to the particular situation.
Just a bit of a safety issue, not a personal thing, all information is appreciated I am sure by all.
Don1966
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The same here Swede all information is appreciated. I never like the give information unless I know what I am doing and I will be hesitant to do it if I don't. I take electricity very serious as I was put in the hospital by it when I was younger. If you noticed in my post there are plenty of warnings. People looking for help do not always know what we're are trying to relay to them and I try my best to explain and some times this is not good enough. Our intentions are to help,but we must think things through when it comes to others asking us for help. To me there safety is number one, because I know they do not know what we know and I do not take it for granted that they do. We have to be cautious in that sense. Your efforts were well intended I have no doubt.
Best Regards Don
Best Regards Don
lazylathe
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Thanks to EVERYONE'S help here i have successfully wired up the basement!
I now have 5 correctly wired receptacles, 3 of which are GFCI's.
All of them are grounded to the box and the receptacle.
All tested and they trip and reset perfectly!
Checked the voltage in all and it is sitting at 115V.
It was easier to do than i had first thought but i still took every precaution.
Worked out really well.
Next step is to figure out how to mount the VFD and then wire it as per recommendations and the manual!
Hopefully be done on the weekend!
Thanks again for everyones help!!
I will update with the VFD wiring and set up!
Andrew
I now have 5 correctly wired receptacles, 3 of which are GFCI's.
All of them are grounded to the box and the receptacle.
All tested and they trip and reset perfectly!
Checked the voltage in all and it is sitting at 115V.
It was easier to do than i had first thought but i still took every precaution.
Worked out really well.
Next step is to figure out how to mount the VFD and then wire it as per recommendations and the manual!
Hopefully be done on the weekend!
Thanks again for everyones help!!
I will update with the VFD wiring and set up!
Andrew
Andrew - nice work! I am sure you will love the functionality when it is finished.
I had a very cheap imported bench drill press that had a whimpy 1P motor... it was typical import quality. I had an extra 3/4 HP VFD stashed away, and I also picked up a surplus 3P motor off eBay for some ridiculous sum, very cheap. That is one of the beauties of 3P power, the motors are everywhere and often inexpensive surplus.
The combination is now a delight to work with. No more pulley swaps, and that motor can drill 1/2" steel with ease, without slowing or stalling.
One thing I was worried about was cooling for both the VFD's and the 3P motors, since a TEFC motor's fan doesn't move much air when the speed is low. Fortunately, at least with the setups I have, none of the components heat appreciably. An external fan to pull air through the motor can be added if needed.
Don, I appreciate the good points made on safety and the requirements for understanding the system in question.
I had a very cheap imported bench drill press that had a whimpy 1P motor... it was typical import quality. I had an extra 3/4 HP VFD stashed away, and I also picked up a surplus 3P motor off eBay for some ridiculous sum, very cheap. That is one of the beauties of 3P power, the motors are everywhere and often inexpensive surplus.
The combination is now a delight to work with. No more pulley swaps, and that motor can drill 1/2" steel with ease, without slowing or stalling.
One thing I was worried about was cooling for both the VFD's and the 3P motors, since a TEFC motor's fan doesn't move much air when the speed is low. Fortunately, at least with the setups I have, none of the components heat appreciably. An external fan to pull air through the motor can be added if needed.
Don, I appreciate the good points made on safety and the requirements for understanding the system in question.
lazylathe
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Okay, next problem...
I connected the 110V input and plugged her in.
As the manual states the display will flash the input voltage, which says 110V and then the display
defaults to the frequency command value of 05.0.
So this is all good.
Then i connect the motor, which has 3 black wires and one ground/earth wire.
Not too sure if the 3 black wires need to go in a specific order or not?
Kind of hard to tell when they are the same colour...
Turning on the VFD again it runs through the same steps above and it flashes on 05.0 as it should.
The next instruction says to test motor without load.
So it does not have the belt on it, just the pulley.
Press the run key and i get an error LVC, which according to the manual is Undervoltage During Operation.
And then the GFCI trips.
The manual says the causes are:
1- Input voltage too low
2- Input voltage varies too widely.
One last thing i did try was to remove the 220V motor leads and push the RUN button on the VFD.
Works without any issues and i can change the frequency.
Do you think there is something wrong with the motor?
This is a pic of the wiring of the motor. It is wired the same as the left hand side.
Any ideas on what i could do to rectify this situation??
Andrew
I connected the 110V input and plugged her in.
As the manual states the display will flash the input voltage, which says 110V and then the display
defaults to the frequency command value of 05.0.
So this is all good.
Then i connect the motor, which has 3 black wires and one ground/earth wire.
Not too sure if the 3 black wires need to go in a specific order or not?
Kind of hard to tell when they are the same colour...
Turning on the VFD again it runs through the same steps above and it flashes on 05.0 as it should.
The next instruction says to test motor without load.
So it does not have the belt on it, just the pulley.
Press the run key and i get an error LVC, which according to the manual is Undervoltage During Operation.
And then the GFCI trips.
The manual says the causes are:
1- Input voltage too low
2- Input voltage varies too widely.
One last thing i did try was to remove the 220V motor leads and push the RUN button on the VFD.
Works without any issues and i can change the frequency.
Do you think there is something wrong with the motor?
This is a pic of the wiring of the motor. It is wired the same as the left hand side.
Any ideas on what i could do to rectify this situation??
Andrew
lazylathe
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Don, the wires are all connected correctly according to the low voltage set up.
I will try them in the order you mentioned and get back to you.
The motor made a noise the first time and then no more after that.
I will reply in a few minutes with the results!
Thanks!!! ;D
Andrew
I will try them in the order you mentioned and get back to you.
The motor made a noise the first time and then no more after that.
I will reply in a few minutes with the results!
Thanks!!! ;D
Andrew
Don1966
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What I would suggest is to remove the gfi receptacle and try again, but make sure the motor stays grounded.
The drive is telling you you line voltage is to low are out of range this is why I ask if the lights dim. possible you are seeing this after the receptacle trips
Don
The drive is telling you you line voltage is to low are out of range this is why I ask if the lights dim. possible you are seeing this after the receptacle trips
Don
lazylathe
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Hi Don,
I beat you to it!
I tried it in a regular receptacle and it works perfectly! ;D
My only concern is why it trips the GFCI receptacle?
The ones i bought are good for 15Amps-125V with a feed through of 20Amps - 125V
Do you think i need to exchange them for a higher amperage unit?
I do not want to use the mill without any protection for the VFD.
This is the GFCI's that were recommended to me:
http://www.homedepot.ca/product/smartlock-gfci-15-amp-with-light-ivory/903699
Thanks for all your continued help!!!!
Andrew
I beat you to it!
I tried it in a regular receptacle and it works perfectly! ;D
My only concern is why it trips the GFCI receptacle?
The ones i bought are good for 15Amps-125V with a feed through of 20Amps - 125V
Do you think i need to exchange them for a higher amperage unit?
I do not want to use the mill without any protection for the VFD.
This is the GFCI's that were recommended to me:
http://www.homedepot.ca/product/smartlock-gfci-15-amp-with-light-ivory/903699
Thanks for all your continued help!!!!
Andrew
Don1966
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It is possible the your motor has some leakage current since it trip pretty quick, you can try another to see that maybe this one is defective. Glad you have it running. Is your rotatio correct? If it isn't reverse any two combination of leads going to motor. You would change 1 and 7 with 2 and 5 or any set like that.
Don
Don
lazylathe
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Rotation is correct as it was set, so that is good.
I do not have another 220V motor.
Would you suggest replacing it to see if it makes a difference?
It does run quite smoothly but does squeak. Could be from 2 years of sitting in an unheated garage.
Maybe a service and lube would sort it out?
Or would a higher rating GFCI make a difference?
The only other option i can think of would be to remove the GFCI and use a fused connector box before the VFD.
Once again thanks for all your help!!
Karma for you!!! ;D
Andrew
I do not have another 220V motor.
Would you suggest replacing it to see if it makes a difference?
It does run quite smoothly but does squeak. Could be from 2 years of sitting in an unheated garage.
Maybe a service and lube would sort it out?
Or would a higher rating GFCI make a difference?
The only other option i can think of would be to remove the GFCI and use a fused connector box before the VFD.
Once again thanks for all your help!!
Karma for you!!! ;D
Andrew
Don1966
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You could test the motor by disconnecting the ground. This is only to test it mind you. Put the motor on a rubber mat or wood bench and retest it with the ground fault receptacle. If it sat for to long without running it probably has moisture build up inside. Running it can help remove it. Another way is to take it apart and put it in a temperature control oven at 300 degrees for one hour. This will remove the moisture.
Don
Don
J
JorgensenSteam
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If the 120 volt circuit you are using is fed from a circuit breaker or a fuse, you don't need GFCI protection.
The fuse or circuit breaker in the panel protects the drive, and the drive protects the motor.
GFCI protection is nice to have, but is generally useful only with 120 volt branch wiring, and small motors.
Just be sure you have a good ground path (ie green grouding wire) from the motor metal frame to the ground at the recpetacle you are using, and be sure the ground at your receptacle has a good green grounding conductor that is connected back to the panelboard ground.
Some people fudge on the green ground wire, and either don't use it, or don't connect it right, or don't run it back to the ground bus in the panel.
My Dad use to cut all the ground conductors off inside the junction boxes, since "the ground condutor doesn't do anything anyway".
My Dad was right to a point, the green ground conductor does not carry any current at all......until you have a fault to ground, such as a fault in the motor winding, and then, a solidly connected green ground conductor will save your arse (and allow the breaker to trip, thus clearing the circuit).
The fuse or circuit breaker in the panel protects the drive, and the drive protects the motor.
GFCI protection is nice to have, but is generally useful only with 120 volt branch wiring, and small motors.
Just be sure you have a good ground path (ie green grouding wire) from the motor metal frame to the ground at the recpetacle you are using, and be sure the ground at your receptacle has a good green grounding conductor that is connected back to the panelboard ground.
Some people fudge on the green ground wire, and either don't use it, or don't connect it right, or don't run it back to the ground bus in the panel.
My Dad use to cut all the ground conductors off inside the junction boxes, since "the ground condutor doesn't do anything anyway".
My Dad was right to a point, the green ground conductor does not carry any current at all......until you have a fault to ground, such as a fault in the motor winding, and then, a solidly connected green ground conductor will save your arse (and allow the breaker to trip, thus clearing the circuit).
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