Home copper plating steel without electricity ( 1740's recipe)

[jack404]

G'day folks

in getting this tiny build going it called for a copper boiler

rolling the copper is fine but i worry about the strength, steam is strong, so i replaced it with some 1038
carbon steel tube i know will take 1400PSI ( i only want 80-100 PSI)

but liking the look of copper i started to get out the electroplating stuff

now this was in the middle of all the parkerizing posts so i decided to do it "ala great great great grand daddy"

i have read how they copper plated in the old days before electricity but on Iron

i am going to try it with steel with a tip from "the electroplaters handbook of 1936" ( Iodine)

Ingredients

1 litre clear Vinegar ( i did not use my good stuff i got home brand)

90 grams ( 3 and a bit ounces) of iodized salt ( important to get iodized as iodine is hard to get thanks to the junkies)
Iodine helps the copper bond to carbon steel as its not the same as iron

copper, i made some chips with the drill and used these and added a small bar ( see pics)


Steel to be coated

plastic or glass container ( not metal )


Method ( to the madness)

pour the vinegar into the bowl (whatever you use) and get it as hot as practicable in the microwave

if using a micriowave do NOT put salt in before hand it will arc like crazy!!! and probably destroy your food nuker

once its hot add the salt and stir in until its all disolved

add you copper filings pennies what ever copper you use

in the pics you'll see i have lined my plastic tray with a plastic bag ( simple things for simple folk) to get the copper out later but leave the salt solution behind , that i'll use later for another project

leave this until its room temp then, ( but not before )


put in your steel and leave this away from any flame or spark source for a few hours ( it produces low ammounts of hydrogen gas) the bigger the steel the longer you leave it ( i taped my tube closed to allow the copper to go to the outside only and deposit where i wanted it and not be wasted where it wont be seen)

i took out the plastic bag the bird wanted to play with it ( gotta hide plastic bags here )

put the steel in plain soapy water in a saucepan and heat a bit to remove all the salt and dry well

copper coated steel

first pic is after 2 hours

and after 4 hours

see where the tape was removed and its still shiny steel??( near my finger) cool eh!

and tomorrow i'll show you after the recommended 20 hours

cheers on a lazy sunday

jack

 

[jack404]

Well so much for 20 hours

after 8 hours in the solution it got to this colour

this is the look i am after so i'll stop it there and start on the ends compare it to this before the soaking

as you can see theres a lot of simple stuff you can do to colour or coat metal

Copper is not the best coating for protecting metal as it does oxidize a fair bit
but protection is not the only reason to coat metals , i'm doing this soley for asthetic reasons for a small engine boiler to look authenic but give me a edge of safety that copper sheet does not provide

cheers

jack

 

[Macca]

Bloody hell Jack,
Stop posting stuff like this, I'm never going to get any further on my engine!
Can't wait to see the finished product.

 

[jack404]

Macca

I wish i had the skills you blokes have regarding the actual building and machining

i know a few tricks and add them when i see someones asked ( parking and rifling etc)

but its pitifully small compared to the wealth of learning i'm getting from the rest of the members here

besides when the DVD set gets there you'll be distracted enough

cheers

jack

 

[tel]

Boiler wise mate, give it away and use copper - it it stronger than you think, with no corrosion concerns.

Got yer bus ticket for thurs?

 

[jack404]

tel

i my just do that ( later ) but wanna learn boilers first

a friend of mine has one eye from what he calls "a simple mistake" so i'll go with what i know and i know steel
until i get the knowledge you folks have

yes ticket is set ( Vet Affairs travel pass, good for anywhere, about the only thing that they aint cut ... yet)

but i have not heard back from my mate yet so dunno the pubs name i'll call the railway hotel tomorrow and ask em if they do a counter lunch still.. let you know

heck i used to navigate by pubs see what happens when you cut back on booze!! you get lost!!! :

also you collecting your shoppin from Auburn or they gonna ship it ??
( dont think the back back will take it sorry )

cheers

 

[tel]

;D Gonna make the trip down and pick it up - Sat week, all being well

 

[gunboatbay]

While this original post showed an interesting way to color metal with easily obtained chemicals, the color of the finished product seemed less than desired, compared to an electroplated article. Most of us think of electroplating as some exotic process requiring expensive, exotic equipment and dangerous chemicals; a process not suitable for us hobbyists. However, many people have not heard of "brush-electroplating", used extensively by jewelers for small articles (applicable to our hobbyist situation). Of course the jewelers use it mostly for gold and silver, so the solutions are still expensive, but solutions for copper are commonly available because copper plating is frequently used as kind of 'primer' to make other plating metals adhere to materials like steel. Many people also don't realize that multiple layers of copper plating, because copper is so soft, can be easily polished down to hide minor surface irregularities left over from machining the steel. Just another way to skin a cat.

 

[Loose nut]

I have a pickling bath (dilute H2SO4) for brass, bronze and copper, if I put a piece of steel in it it will plate out copper. It's good for doing layout work without messy layout fluid.

Steel boilers have been used for models for many years. As long as you build to code (see OZ model boiler codes, many clubs in Canada have adopted them also) and use proper water treatment and storage procedure to slow corrosion they work fine but don't steam quite as well, lower heat transfer rates with steel.

Jack, I have a question about your rifling machine set up. Is it OK if I send you a PM.

 

[Cedge]

Gunboat...
For the mere $2.00 that it took for Jack to accomplish his technique, at least you could acknowledge his efforts as valid. I spent the money for Caswell's brush on kit and it performed rather poorly, at least until I dumped the solution into a small vat and began dipping the parts instead of dipping the magic wand.

I'm willing to give the vinegar and salt thing a try, just to see if it will act as a usable substrate for my preferred nickel finish.

Thanks Jack... the old ways still fascinate me, here.

Steve

 

[Kludge]

Jack, you are going to make this into a PDF as well, right? I mean, we're talking moral imperative here, guy! Or something.

Anyway, excellent write up. I do some electroplating but I'll give this a try for the copper substrate instead. I wonder if there are similar methods for other plating metals, nickel being a real good example with brass not far behind.

Best regards,

Kludge

 

[jack404]

G'day Kludge

Nickel is doable but brass is a alloy and goes to s%*t ( sperates into tin and copper) but nickel needs nasty acids and such Mercury and bromide

mercury is bad enough but bromide will kill any "desire for life" ( call it anti viagra if you get the point takes lead from the pencil, no zip in the doo dah etc etc etc)

not really a home job unless you use a electicity the old meathod for nickel plating killed a lot of folks electroplating is far safer cheaper etc etc etc ( and you can still play with girlies after)

the acids just as nasty but no mercury needed or other really nasty stuff

and yes i'll do up a pdf for you all and post it

Loosenut PM away mate

Gunboatbay yes you will never get the thickness this way that electroplating gives

heck given enough eletricity you can build a copper bar!! but remember the cost of electricity ( both in carbon costs and wallet costs) and acid ( its cheaper to buy copper , here electricity in plating it 90% of the cost it uses that much maybe in the US electricity is cheaper but still not as cheap as you think, a US doc i read says $4 electricity per micron thickness / square foot and why they use as strong a acid as possible to cut down on electricy costs)

pickling baths are great as the copper is dissolved already but to coat steel ( not iron) add a drop of iodine,
it helps the copper bond to the carbon molecules so the finish is not spotty

and with the polite society getting politer many fear that soon there will be restrictions for many acids and such

i read that the US is trying to ban lead acid batteries, to save the environment? nope to stop access to acid they want us all to use gel batteries

try buying nitric acid and a lot of nitrate componds now, many states in the US you cant unless you have a business licence and later you'll need a usage permit ( driven by the anti gun lobby mainly so you cant even make black powder)

again its a colouring not a plating but also a metal protectant and stabiliser

the old family bibles of old had this on the locks etc verdigris aside. it is meant for iron where the two oxidisation processes counter one another but to me its better than copper paint on steel to make steel look like copper

also you cant electroplate some alloys

so its not a perfect solution but its "horses for courses" this is just another option and a easy one for most folks

one trick you can do with this is dissolve some iron filings in water over a couple of weeks

paint the "rusty water" on dryed wood , let it dry , then do this!!! copper wood i have done that on pistol grips then checkered them they are soooo classy i think they where done by someone else!!

works on leather too but thats a bit fiddly with lots of fats waxes etc

cheers folks

jack

 

[Maryak]

Jack,

Haven't commented, (Can't cos I know bugger all about it), but followed this thread with much interest and you are doing a fantastic job and showing a way to a place, which is for me a black art.

Thanks Jack :bow: :bow: :bow:

Best Regards
Bob

 

[Kludge]

G'day Kludge

Nickel is doable but brass is a alloy and goes to s%*t ( sperates into tin and copper) but nickel needs nasty acids and such Mercury and bromide
/quote]

Acids don't worry me - not after wife #2. ;D

not really a home job unless you use a electicity the old meathod for nickel plating killed a lot of folks electroplating is far safer cheaper etc etc etc ( and you can still play with girlies after)

I like electroplating since I don't do huge areas so this isn't a problem. As far as playing with the girlies ... gotta catch them first and they keep catching on to my tricks.

i read that the US is trying to ban lead acid batteries, to save the environment? nope to stop access to acid they want us all to use gel batteries

This just will not do! How will I keep my turn of the century "galvanic stimulator" (quack medicine device I came across at a flea market) working without sulphuric acid?

one trick you can do with this is dissolve some iron filings in water over a couple of weeks

paint the "rusty water" on dryed wood , let it dry , then do this!!! copper wood i have done that on pistol grips then checkered them they are soooo classy i think they where done by someone else!!

works on leather too but thats a bit fiddly with lots of fats waxes etc

So ... when are you going to publish your book of recipes like this?

BEst regards,

Kludge ... hoping for an autographed copy!

 

[tel]

heck given enough eletricity you can build a copper bar!!

Interestingly, I knew a bloke, since, sadly deceased, who sort of did that - he made a float for a motor cycle carby by plating over a wax model of the inner - wax coated with graphite?

 

[jack404]

Kludge

first PDF posted in the downloads section

i'll do some more over the next few weeks and post them and PDF them

as for a book they are already out there

look for pre 1900's technology or historic formula's old manuals and factory instructions
the smithsonian online is a great resource

a lot of stuff we take for granted was hard work in the old days or bloody dangerous
or unavailable or just nasty ( leather making in the old days was the nastiest process)

as for things becoming restricted thank the drug trade and do gooders who between them will make simple chemicals very hard to get very bloody soon ( can i say shoot em all? junkies and do gooders alike?)

Bob this is about all i can contribute to the knowledge base for now i'm withdrawing way more than i'm putting in

and thank you all for all i am learning

Tel yes but its the pencil lead type graphite used over wax its used to chrome plate plastic now coat with a bit of copper then nickel then chrome obviously he just "went to town" with the copper! clever bloke....

i do plating myself just doing it "different" or "old school" way is a interest for me ( dont try leather tanning the old way though unless you want your neighbours to move and sue you, dont worry about cops... one whiff and they realise its a EPA issue, EPA will find someone else to deal with it and the whole circle allows you to finish the job then deny it all after its cleaned up)

cheers all!!

jack

 

[Loose nut]

pickling baths are great as the copper is dissolved already but to coat steel ( not iron) add a drop of iodine,
it helps the copper bond to the carbon molecules so the finish is not spotty

My bath, pickling not bathing, is a real nice shade of aquamarine from all the copper in it. I'll give the Iodine trick a try.

 

[jack404]

dont use much mate!!!

iodine used that way can be touchy

dip a rod of steel into the iodine and use what sticks to the rod as the ammount and go up in those tiny incriments

iodine is like water it can jump back out at ya!!! be safe eh

you only need to coat the carbon molecules in the steel

and you'll always have a greenish tinge in the bath due to the salts that are formed but

old iron peices that you can grind clean are the best way

that way you dont need iodine at all and you remove the excess copper and some of the salts ( never all sorry)

iodine will neutralise the acids a bit after prolonged use i forget why but makes them a lot less stronger

everything you do with chemistry has a action or reaction,, so please when thinking about following one of my schemes think twice do your own research and BE CAREFUL PLEASE!!

'cheers eh

jack

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