Flame Licker lubrication

[Shipdisturber]

I posted some time ago regarding making a steam powered skiff and at the time it seemed like a good idea but I think I will get my feet wet first. I'm making a flame lick er engine with what I can scrounge from my wee bit of scrap metal. I have the cylinder and piston machined for a nice sliding fit and fairly positive reaction between the valve and piston but I have two questions. 1. the material for the piston is aluminium the cylinder is brass should I use a lubricant and if so what should I use? 2. I have never posted a picture on this site is there any special procedure to do so? Thanks in advance.

 

[el gringo]

Would be interesting to try it a while without lube although some type of lube might help with the 'sliding' fit.
Ray M

 

[fcheslop]

I have two engines with the opposite combination as in alloy cylinder bronze/brass pistons .One is over 20 years old and all I have ever used for cylinder lubrication is a quick scribble around the piston with a good grade of 2B or 4B artists pencil
Funny theres a lot of interest in these engines at the moment.Im currently drawing one up as I go around 3/8 bore just for fun
cheers

 

[Shipdisturber]

Thank you Gringo and fcheslop. My experience in the work place has been all about big diesel engines, about 40 years worth. The cylinder liners have cross hatch that retains oil which lubricates and seals the rings. So I was thinking a light oil on a flame licker bore may do the same job as it does on a big engine. fcheslop, graphite from a pencil never occurred to me a good idea as far as lube goes. Does graphite also act as a sealant too?
I just checked out the picture section and I think it will be easy to do once I take some pictures.

 

[Shipdisturber]

Pictures so far.

 

[Shipdisturber]

I may have to make the cylinder wall thinner I will see once I try to make it run. On one article you posted fcheslop on another thread they talked about Sterling engines with a five inch bore I find that incredible! These engines are really starting to get my interest, is there any articles about solar powered heat engines?

 

[fcheslop]

The graphite may have formed a seal in my old engine I simply dont know and Im not cleaning it out to find out
From memory theres a 10Kw engine running from a fresnel mirror in europe
and rather tongue in cheek
https://youtu.be/_3AeKvANjSk
I think there is some drawings on the john tom site
NASA have links and info http://hdl.handle.net/2060/19830022057
Not what you ask about but I just love this gentleman's creativity
https://youtu.be/5qc-aQzeVb8
Be careful these engines become addictive and you end up with a house full of them collecting dust
cheers
frazer

 

[Shipdisturber]

The graphite may have formed a seal in my old engine I simply dont know and Im not cleaning it out to find out
From memory theres a 10Kw engine running from a fresnel mirror in europe
and rather tongue in cheek
https://youtu.be/_3AeKvANjSk
I think there is some drawings on the john tom site
NASA have links and info http://hdl.handle.net/2060/19830022057
Not what you ask about but I just love this gentleman's creativity
https://youtu.be/5qc-aQzeVb8
Be careful these engines become addictive and you end up with a house full of them collecting dust
cheers
frazer

You know Frazer I could see that happening!

 

[el gringo]

Beautiful work Shipdesturber !!

Ray M

 

[Brian Rupnow]

I just finished building the newest version flame licker from Jan Ridders in the Netherlands. He is quite emphatic about "No oil--ever" on his engines. (I couldn't get his engine to run very well, but that may be something I have done.) I am now building a flame-licker, the "Poppin" designed by J.R. Senft--He has a drip oiler on his cylinder and recommends "Marvel mystery Oil" set for about 3 drops of oil per minute. If you use any combination of metals for piston and cylinder, I think you probably need an oiler. If you use a machinable graphite piston, you won't need oil as it is self lubricating.---Brian

 

[fcheslop]

Having also built both engine as in Poppin and the Jan Ridders designs the better engines are both of Mr Duclos designs
despite the alloy cylinders
Poppin tends to gum up as the oil burns the Duclos engines lubricated with graphite never do unless the cylinders become contaminated with oil
Iv also used graphite pistons and from personnel experience cannot honestly say there is any advantage other than weight
I have no idea why the Duclos engines run so well as one was my first and the cylinders are alloy
Like others the Ridders valveless engine is a pain to get running as is his valved twin due to the springs sitting in the flame hence his Mk2 version
Im a bit doubtful about using alloy for the piston as it may become tight when hot or to slack when cold my preference at the moment is for En1APB just mild steel with a lead content it has worked very well in my Stirling engines
Just my two bobs worth

 

[Shipdisturber]

Drip oiler would be interesting. Where did he locate the oiler?

 

[fcheslop]

At the rear of the cylinder near the frame
The drawings are on the john tom site

 

[Naiveambition]

Built two poppins and if I used any kind of oil it seemed to be just enough to stop it from running. Also noticed it would soot up more being wet with wd40 or the like.
I can't stress enough that ANY amount of drag and you will have problems.

I think someone mentions pencil lead so I second that one. My second poppin was for my dad and he spent hours trying to get it to run with no luck. So feeling bad after a year I was able to visit and scraped some lead pencil in each end and used my lighter and away she went so... lead definitely was part my redemption?

 

[Shipdisturber]

OK pencil lead it is, thank you. The rod bearings are going to be made from RC helicopter ball bearings that should cut down some drag.

 

[Shipdisturber]

Once again I started thinking. I was going to use brass connecting rod ends with roller bearings and a threaded 1/8 inch shaft between the two. Now brass and steel are not well know for being light weight. When you consider the rod and piston are reciprocating parts the movement of those parts will take up a fair bit of energy. With each revolution the reciprocating mass will have to stop and start twice, to me that is energy that I don't have to waste. The new plan is to use a 1/8 aluminium connecting rod with a brass bushing at the piston end and a bearing at the flywheel end. I think this is a better plan.

 

[fcheslop]

Thats how I make them
Just started the rod for my 3/8 bore engine and the rod will have an 8mm OD 3mm ID flanged bearing at the big end and a 5/32 OD 3/32 ID bronze bush for the small end.The mixed measurements are to use whats in my junk box , The rod is from 3mm alloy grade unknown
cheers

 

[Shipdisturber]

What about stroke length what is best for a 5/8 bore?

 

[Shipdisturber]

More progress. The flywheel, rod and piston in the pictures together are what I will use. The single flywheel is my first failure in that department, it's wobbly because it should have had two bearings and if it did there would be too much drag. I still have to put short sleeves on either side of the crank bearing to make sure there will be no contact with the flywheel or pin. Alignment of everything is going to be critical. Do you use alcohol for heat because paraffin candles will gum things up?

 

[Naiveambition]

I use Coleman Latern fluid or white gas. Great flame size vs amount of wick used. Denatured alcohol will work but not the normal isopropyl kind.

Another is a really good moonshine. Which is pretty much equivalent to denatured alcohol. The closer u get to 200 proof the better. If u are in the states any local spirits place will have everclear, which is 190.

I do know the cleaner the fuel the cleaner the burn so due diligence to flame size. I always wanted to try the mini propane, or butane burners with just the needle valve to feed the flame.
A cool side note is Henry fords cars were originally designed for moonshine till the gas company squeezed in so its capable.