Elmer Wall Inline four cylinder plans

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Scotty68

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Omaha, Nebraska - USA
Hi, I am looking for plans or blueprints or build instructions for the Elmer Wall four cylinder in-line, four cycle engine. I think it is the valve-in-head version but it might also be the flat head I am just not sure. I recently acquired on of these engines and the majority of it is still in castings. I did not receive any documentation on it or plans/ blueprints needed to finish it. Can any of you help?
Scotty68
 

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This engine you have here looks like it’s a side valve engine. I discovered this model of engine yesterday in a book I brought that had a couple of pictures in. This engine is very interesting to me as I am in the process of building a 30cc side valve inline four from scratch. This is a nice looking engine very similar to ET Westburys seal major engine.
 
I am pretty sure that this is the 50cc flat head, not sure about the side valve theory. Funny you should mention the Westbury seal engine, as it turns out, some of the parts that I have in my pictures may be for that engine. You have a good eye.
Scotty68
 
I would be interested too if you do find the plans for this engine. If the one in those pictures is your one then I believe that is the in fact the side valve version. I think that the definition flat head does generally mean that it’s side valve. Unless I have my definitions wrong.

Here is a video of mine which I have always called side valve, I’d love to be corrected if I’m wrong with this definition though.

 
As far as I know side valve is the same as flat head, at least where I come from. You can't have a flat head if it has valves in it so there's nowhere else for them to go but on the side...
 
It seems looks like a Wall 50, valves in the block ( we called it flathead) I built one with higher compression to power a 6 feet wooden boat, one of my friends in the San Francisco Bay area built an F head version, some have made overhead versions of them, quite a nice running engine.
I'm out of the country while the self isolation remains, will check when I get back if the plans are in my shop or at my friend shop.
There are some things we replaced in this engines like the brass connecting rods, we replaced these with Aluminum 2024, May have rods CNC machined for the engine.
Jaime
 
It seems looks like a Wall 50, valves in the block ( we called it flathead) I built one with higher compression to power a 6 feet wooden boat, one of my friends in the San Francisco Bay area built an F head version, some have made overhead versions of them, quite a nice running engine.
I'm out of the country while the self isolation remains, will check when I get back if the plans are in my shop or at my friend shop.
There are some things we replaced in this engines like the brass connecting rods, we replaced these with Aluminum 2024, May have rods CNC machined for the engine.
Jaime
Jaime, That would be awesome if you were able to find the plans, I don't seem to be having much luck tracking them down elsewhere.
Scotty68
 
Hi, I am looking for plans or blueprints or build instructions for the Elmer Wall four cylinder in-line, four cycle engine. I think it is the valve-in-head version but it might also be the flat head I am just not sure. I recently acquired on of these engines and the majority of it is still in castings. I did not receive any documentation on it or plans/ blueprints needed to finish it. Can any of you help?
Scotty68
I have a set of plans I will copy off for you, if you pay the cost of copying and postage.
Elmer Wall had a business in Chicago back in the 1920's and 1930's. He supplied plans and casting kits for his engines. I believe the kit ones being sold today are still using his original patterns. (My set says "E. WALL - CHICAGO" on the crankcase. )
Kind regards;
Bill
 
I have a set of plans I will copy off for you, if you pay the cost of copying and postage.
Elmer Wall had a business in Chicago back in the 1920's and 1930's. He supplied plans and casting kits for his engines. I believe the kit ones being sold today are still using his original patterns. (My set says "E. WALL - CHICAGO" on the crankcase. )
Kind regards;
Bill
BILL,
That would be awesome! I will gladly pay the expenses for copying and postage to get them here. My engine block also says E. WALL - CHICAGO on the side but for all I know all of them do. Just let me know what the copying fees and shipping charges will be to Omaha Nebraska 68137 and I will get you paid, I am PayPal ready. Just out of curiosity, did you build the engine? Do you still have it?
Scotty68
 
I have a set of plans I will copy off for you, if you pay the cost of copying and postage.
Elmer Wall had a business in Chicago back in the 1920's and 1930's. He supplied plans and casting kits for his engines. I believe the kit ones being sold today are still using his original patterns. (My set says "E. WALL - CHICAGO" on the crankcase. )
Kind regards;
Bill
Bill, I almost forgot, when you say "Plans" do you mean blueprints and instructions? Do they include dimensions? I apologize, maybe these are stupid questions. I just don't have a lot or any experience for that matter where engine building is concerned. Regardless of your response to these questions, I will still take them. No matter what information they contain they'll be a step up from what I currently possess. (which is nothing)
Scotty68
 
Bill, I almost forgot, when you say "Plans" do you mean blueprints and instructions? Do they include dimensions? I apologize, maybe these are stupid questions. I just don't have a lot or any experience for that matter where engine building is concerned. Regardless of your response to these questions, I will still take them. No matter what information they contain they'll be a step up from what I currently possess. (which is nothing)
Scotty68
They are blueprints, which means they have material callouts, and the dimensions the parts need to be to fit. There aren't any instructions. I think you can probably find build logs on-line somewhere. Also, you can check into the Edgar T Westbury engine that is similar (4 cylinder and I think it is also 50 cc. capacity)
Edgar T Westbury was an English Engineer who wrote about small engines for many years. During WW II, he designed a few small steam engines that were supplied in large numbers, to the resistance forces in Europe, to be used to drive small generators for radio messages. (Gasoline was unobtainable unless you were Nazi military, and those guys were not sending love messages to Britain. ) Everyone had plenty of wood laying around, so you could go off in the forest, stoke up your little boiler, and send your radio message, then dump the fire, and clear out of there. (The Nazis had radio interception trucks that they used to locate transmitters, and they got VERY good at it, just driving around. . My understanding is that all of the ETW engines with star names, were those designs. (Polaris, Sirius, etc.) Some of them will run at 4000 and 5000 rpm. They are quite amazing. No one knew this until after the war. He released the designs to magazines such as "Model Engineer" during the war, but they were actually designed at the request of the British Ministry of Defence.
Anywho, the point of this is that if you can find a build log for the ETW engines, the procedures would be exactly the same, and just because the parts are a little different does not matter. The instructions are mostly how to avoid making mistakes, and they apply to all small engines, whether gas or steam.
I will go down now and see about getting them copied off. I will be in touch on here with what the cost is. It should not be that much.
I still have my engine, and I am about 25% of the way towards completion. It has been sitting for a number of years, and I think the Covid-19 situation is a good excuse to spend more time in the shop.
 
They are blueprints, which means they have material callouts, and the dimensions the parts need to be to fit. There aren't any instructions. I think you can probably find build logs on-line somewhere. Also, you can check into the Edgar T Westbury engine that is similar (4 cylinder and I think it is also 50 cc. capacity)
Edgar T Westbury was an English Engineer who wrote about small engines for many years. During WW II, he designed a few small steam engines that were supplied in large numbers, to the resistance forces in Europe, to be used to drive small generators for radio messages. (Gasoline was unobtainable unless you were Nazi military, and those guys were not sending love messages to Britain. ) Everyone had plenty of wood laying around, so you could go off in the forest, stoke up your little boiler, and send your radio message, then dump the fire, and clear out of there. (The Nazis had radio interception trucks that they used to locate transmitters, and they got VERY good at it, just driving around. . My understanding is that all of the ETW engines with star names, were those designs. (Polaris, Sirius, etc.) Some of them will run at 4000 and 5000 rpm. They are quite amazing. No one knew this until after the war. He released the designs to magazines such as "Model Engineer" during the war, but they were actually designed at the request of the British Ministry of Defence.
Anywho, the point of this is that if you can find a build log for the ETW engines, the procedures would be exactly the same, and just because the parts are a little different does not matter. The instructions are mostly how to avoid making mistakes, and they apply to all small engines, whether gas or steam.
I will go down now and see about getting them copied off. I will be in touch on here with what the cost is. It should not be that much.
I still have my engine, and I am about 25% of the way towards completion. It has been sitting for a number of years, and I think the Covid-19 situation is a good excuse to spend more time in the shop.
I would be interested in a copy also.

Ron
 
I would be interested in a copy also.

Ron
I will see about a second copy. I have them printed at a blueprint place. They are the cheapest I have found for large drawings. I will have a price plus postage tomorrow. One set for you and one for Scotty. Do you have a casting kit?
 
I will see about a second copy. I have them printed at a blueprint place. They are the cheapest I have found for large drawings. I will have a price plus postage tomorrow. One set for you and one for Scotty. Do you have a casting kit?
No, I carve from bar stock. Takes time but it works for me. Have a Westbury Sea Lion on back shelf as I make Demon V-8.
Made a Mastiff engine from bar stock, 4 cyl opposed, water cooled and oil pump lubed.
Ron
 
I will see about a second copy. I have them printed at a blueprint place. They are the cheapest I have found for large drawings. I will have a price plus postage tomorrow. One set for you and one for Scotty. Do you have a casting kit?
Might I suggest scanning and making pdfs, I'm sure many would be interested especially if a few got together and paid for the scanning.
 
NOPE! They are mine all mine ha ha ha haaaaa..... 😁
They plans will cost $22.50. That covers copying, postage and packing, etc.
Also, I found 2 additional sheets I will include. One covers the electrics for the ignition system. The other has all the drawings for the carburetor.
Let me know if you are still interested.
Kind regards;
Bill
 

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