modeng2000
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Nov 14, 2008
- Messages
- 146
- Reaction score
- 37
Now it all makes sense, change the name and put up the price. Even better, make it smell nice and add a bit more. :idea:
John
John
Clean burning spirit?
- Thread starter eskimobob
- Start date
Help Support Home Model Engine Machinist Forum:
Hi
I bought my bottle of lamp oil from the local hardware store too. Up until a few years ago we used to sell paraffin (and had done so since my grandfathers day) The lamp oil I have seems a little heavier than paraffin and doesn't have the same smell when burning. Perhaps it is slightly more refined.
Cheers
Rich
I bought my bottle of lamp oil from the local hardware store too. Up until a few years ago we used to sell paraffin (and had done so since my grandfathers day) The lamp oil I have seems a little heavier than paraffin and doesn't have the same smell when burning. Perhaps it is slightly more refined.
Cheers
Rich
modeng2000
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Nov 14, 2008
- Messages
- 146
- Reaction score
- 37
Just to keep you up to date with my 'flame gulper' it ran today almost at the first try. I had to adjust the valve timing before it would run but having got that near enough it just kept going.
As I have not yet made the wick burner I thought I'd try the butane flame from a small gas torch. The positioning of the flame is quite critical but I found the right spot after a while.
Are there any thoughts about the fumes from a butane burner compared to say lamp oil? I know that a gas tank has to be made correctly from the safety viewpoint so perhaps it is just easier to use lamp oil.
John
As I have not yet made the wick burner I thought I'd try the butane flame from a small gas torch. The positioning of the flame is quite critical but I found the right spot after a while.
Are there any thoughts about the fumes from a butane burner compared to say lamp oil? I know that a gas tank has to be made correctly from the safety viewpoint so perhaps it is just easier to use lamp oil.
John
steamboatmodel
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Sep 7, 2008
- Messages
- 303
- Reaction score
- 7
I found that butane burns cleaner than the Esbit/Mamod tablets, and with a lot less smell than kerosene (paraffin). For years I was confused about what the magazines and books from England were referring to when they mentioned paraffin, over here you normally only run across the word paraffin on the box of wax for making candles. As for Meths the closest you can come in Canada is Methyl Hydrate, I have not been able to find denatured alcohol in any of the stores around here (I think it must run against the Canadian nature to take good grain alcohol and make it undrinkable). White Spirits here is generally understood to mean Coleman fuel that you burn in a pressurized stove or lantern, and is much to volatile to run in a open burner. Most of my models I run on either Esbit tablets, Sterno or butane/propane mix.
Regards,
Gerald
Regards,
Gerald
I have a small "flame eater" engine, a modified "Poppin" and I've found the best liquid fuel to be "everclear".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Everclear_(alcohol)
I had no luck with petroleum based fuels, too much soot. I tried methanol, and shelac thinner but they had a bad smell and the fumes seemed to irritate my eyes after a while. Everclear is sold in my state, Montana, and it burns with a nice blue flame and has very little odor either in liquid form or burning. It is somewhat more expensive than denatured alcohols but it's (relatively) low toxicity as well as it's burning characteristics make it well worth the extra cost.
Thx
MikeR C
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Everclear_(alcohol)
I had no luck with petroleum based fuels, too much soot. I tried methanol, and shelac thinner but they had a bad smell and the fumes seemed to irritate my eyes after a while. Everclear is sold in my state, Montana, and it burns with a nice blue flame and has very little odor either in liquid form or burning. It is somewhat more expensive than denatured alcohols but it's (relatively) low toxicity as well as it's burning characteristics make it well worth the extra cost.
Thx
MikeR C
modeng2000
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Nov 14, 2008
- Messages
- 146
- Reaction score
- 37
Very interesting, the various names and availabilities in different countries of fuel for model engines. I think I might stay with a liquid fuel feeding a wick burner as it is traditional for flame gulpers.
John
John
Re: Denatured alcohol in Canada. I, too, have had a problem buying it from hardware stores, but it is available from chemical supply stores. It is certainly not any reluctance to ruin good drinking alcohol. There is a plant near me that is shipping pure C2H5OH (grain alcohol) that is not denatured until it gets mixed with gasoline to meet some environmentalist law that we will reduce air pollution by starving the world's poor.
In the US, I think every hardware store sells it in the paint department and Canada Customs doesn't seem to object to importing it so just carry it across the border.
In the US, I think every hardware store sells it in the paint department and Canada Customs doesn't seem to object to importing it so just carry it across the border.
From what I can find out through searching is that ethanol and isopropyl have approximately the same burn temperature (which is what you are after for a flame sucker) but products like rubbing alcohol contain water. You mention 90% isopropyl which is then 10% water. The water absorbs a lot of the heat of combustion to the point where 70% will just barely burn.
I found this:
IsopropylAlcohol 12,960 btu/lb
Ethyl Alcohol 11,570 btu/lb
Methyl Alcohol 8,419 btu/lb
So Isopropyl would be slightly hotter, as far as the water goes you can buy Isopropyl in yellow bottles at the "gas" station for automotive fuel tanks. (Absorbs water and prevents gas line freeze up) The Red bottles are I believe Methanol. Also 99% Isopropyl is available in "drug stores" as "rubbing alcohol". (1% water) I tried the Red stuff but the fumes made my eyes burn, but I don't remember trying the yellow. Some of the stove boards complain that it is hard to get Isopropyl to burn clean, may need to tweak a wick burner to get enough air to the flame to prevent sooting. I haven't noticed that being a problem with Ethyl alcohol. (Everclear). This all applies here in the US, elsewhere "your milage may vary".
Thx
MikeR C
IsopropylAlcohol 12,960 btu/lb
Ethyl Alcohol 11,570 btu/lb
Methyl Alcohol 8,419 btu/lb
So Isopropyl would be slightly hotter, as far as the water goes you can buy Isopropyl in yellow bottles at the "gas" station for automotive fuel tanks. (Absorbs water and prevents gas line freeze up) The Red bottles are I believe Methanol. Also 99% Isopropyl is available in "drug stores" as "rubbing alcohol". (1% water) I tried the Red stuff but the fumes made my eyes burn, but I don't remember trying the yellow. Some of the stove boards complain that it is hard to get Isopropyl to burn clean, may need to tweak a wick burner to get enough air to the flame to prevent sooting. I haven't noticed that being a problem with Ethyl alcohol. (Everclear). This all applies here in the US, elsewhere "your milage may vary".
Thx
MikeR C
The metylated spirits we get in the UK is purple and has a nastier smell and a less blue more smoky flame. It is though possible to get clear meths, but usually you need order a lot at one time. You also theoretically need a licence for it, but that seems not to policed as its posted.
member from a Toy steam forum I am on burn these flame lickers fine on clear or purple meths. Paraffin will be too sooty, as we find on toy steam engines
member from a Toy steam forum I am on burn these flame lickers fine on clear or purple meths. Paraffin will be too sooty, as we find on toy steam engines
I know, but Everclear, depending on what you can get, is 75.5% or 95% ethanol and balance water. This isn't a tremendous difference. I've burned the 90% Isopropyl alcohol in pop can stoves without issue. Just a suggestion.
