Buying a machine shop? - request for experience

[thefishhunter]

O.k. a weird one, but one in which I would like the collective wisdom of the group to address... Some of you gents have been at this for a lot longer than I have.

I have the "oppurtunity" to buy the remaining inventory of a machine shop that closed last year. The owner has retired to a ranch in the northern us and left the reamining equipment with a buddy of mine.

Here's what I can remember from my quick tour the other day ( I will be going back for a much more indepth tour and inventory ;D )

2 Hardinge Toolroom style Lathes seem to be in 80% shape with ALL the tooling (200 + collets for example)
1 American Lathe LARGE 16 swing 80 long - 50% shape Again LOTS o' tooling
1 Bridgeport vertical mill with bridge port SHAPER! - 50% shape
1 Cincinatti Horizontal (No.4) Mill - 75% shape LOTS o tooling
1 Enco Vetical Mill - shape ???
2 Hardinge OLD NC Lathes (production machines) unknown shape stuffed in a corner
2 granite tables 1 Very large
Another older shaper in pieces
And tooling,tooling, tooling bits and pieces just everywhere.
etc. etc.

In my estimation (based on some conversations with my buddy) I can pick up the whole lot for 6 or 7,000 USD.

My problem here is its ALL 3 phase, and some of it's huge. example: Cincinatti Mill - 3000 lbs, 25 hp. I will NEVER have a piece big enough to justify using it??? I could probably unload it for just plain scrap for $0.50 / lb. ($1000 give or take.)

Here's the question:

Is this really the DREAM catch I think it is, or is it a boat anchor in discuise? I would love to have 1 of the hardinge machines, and the bridgeport with the vertical shaper, but I think this is going to be an ALL or nothing kind of deal. I really don't want to get caught with 5 tons of equipment I can't do anything with.

I look for your illustrius wisdom and insight....

Chris

PS, forgive my spelling and grammar, its really late here in Texas

 

[Tin Falcon]

All in all sounds like a pretty good deal
sounds like some equipment is quite usable and othe may not be but that goes with any package deal.
The price seems very good for al that machinery.
the three phase issue can be solved with Varable frequency drives IIRC a 1HP VFD can be had for about $ 100 morepowerfull ones a bit more.
Do you have space to put the equipment?
Moving large machines can seem a daunting task but think it out . towing companies will move machines. you can rent forklifts and such for a day.
I would say if you have money to buy it move it restore it etc a place for it an time to do what is needed go for it. As far as old cnc you can always stripp off the old electronics and start fresh aset of motors a set of gecko drives a power supply a computer and mach 3 and an old cnc can come back to life.
TIn

 

[bearcar1]

I dunno Chris, I am certainly no expert but it would seem to me that if the machines were indeed worth anything at all the original owner would have attempted to vend them to someone before he bailed. I love older machines and with the proper TLC and sometimes hard work they can be restored to high standard caliber work. Now the price seems reasonable but don't forget to figure in the cost of rental equipment such as trailers, lifts, all of the associated trappings and the manpower if applicable and the cost begins to add up fast. Throw in the dollars needed to invest in either converting the machines to single phase or purchase of VFDs of proper size and again the cost begins to spiral upwards at a very steep rate. Even if you could sell the machines to a third party vendor or scrap you are still stuck with the task of initially moving the stuff and I personally think it would be a losing proposition unless you have the means at your disposal right up front to relocate this stuff and have the room to accommodate/store the pieces while you perform the necessary repairs or put them to work. Have you attempted to persuade the owner to sell you the pieces that you are interested in? He *may* ask a bit of a higher price for a single machine but you would not then have to deal with all of the other stuff that you have no usage for at this time. Just my $.02 and not worth that either.


BC1
Jim

 

[shred]

The bigger the machines, the less people want to buy them these days. Where in TX is this? Near Houston or Dallas there's a pretty good local resale market and you could probably offload anything you didn't want fairly rapidly (though not at top dollar these days). Elsewhere is very hit and miss. If it's near Austin, I know a guy here that occasionally buys and sells (and moves) metalworking machinery and tools and might be able to give you an idea what you could easily resell and what doesn't.

 

[RonGinger]

You said 'remaining inventory'. That means a sale has already been held and the stuff that anyone else wanted is sold. You have a chance at what might be called 'the floor sweepings'.

Cheap enough, and not counting anything for your labor and time, it still might be a good deal. Take what you can use, store the rest and either part it out (a long slow, but likely more profitable process) or scrap it.

You mention lots of tooling, that can have more value than the base machines when parted out. But dont underestimate the time it will take to move, sort, store and part out all this stuff. Do you want to become an ebay seller, or run some machines?

 

[thefishhunter]

Guys, Heres an update.

1. I can keep the machines in my friends shop indefinitely (up to year?) The oil industry is really slow down here and he unfortunately he has PLENTY of room.

2. The only machiens that sold were the big lathes - 16+" swing Okuma's

3. As far as moving the equipment, I have a 3/4 ton ruck and theirs a forklift in the shop.

I don't know, I'm gonna swing by their again this week and take a more indepth look at all of the stuff for sale. This time I'm going in jeans and a t-shirt, I was in suit pants and white buttonup last time. Not the right atire for "diggin' in and checkin out

I'll keep you guys in the loop.

Chris