Brand of file

[Ken Bartlett]

After attempting to file a piece of aluminum tonight with a garage sale special file, I decided to seek council from those with far more experience than I.
What brand does everyone recommend. I have seen mainly the better looking files made by Nicholson I believe, but I have not been specifically looking. Also, is it recommended to have a rough cut file followed by a 2nd cut, finer tooth file? Do any of you old timers(experienced ones) use chalk to prevent pinning and dragging of material in the file teeth on the work? Do you file dry, or with a lubricant? I tried it with WD-40 tonight and go a lot better results than doing it dry.
Thanks for any and all thoughts on the matter.

 

[gbritnell]

Hi Ken,
Each file type, bastard, second cut, mill, is made for different metal removal rates and finishes. You use the type for the amount of material that has to come off the workpiece. As far as brand, I haven't had much luck with import files, that's not to say that there aren't some good ones out there, I just haven't run into them.
The type of aluminum that you are filing makes a difference. If you are using 6061 or 7075 you can get away without using chalk, sometimes, but if you are filing cast aluminum which is pretty gummy you need to chalk the file at least when using a mill file. I have never personally used a cutting fluid for filing. Maybe if you are just doing a small area it would work. Remember you want to get rid of the chips from the file teeth as you are filing. The cutting fluid would make them stick to the file. The problem with pinning is that the chips in the teeth get melted back onto the workpiece because you are rubbing them against the stock and this creates friction. The finer the file the worse it becomes. I have a file card handy and after a few passes I clean the file before proceeding. Sometimes the 'pin' will stick so tight to the file that you actually have to pick it off with a pointed tool like a dental pick.
gbritnell

 

[Stan]

If you are going to file aluminum, buy a file for aluminum. Nicholson's is marked 'Aluminum' right below the tang. They remove metal fast and don't pin.

Don't be stumped by a young counterman like one I ran into. I guess that after being tricked into looking for things like left hand crescent wrenches he told me that he couldn't be fooled. "He knew that files were made out of steel, not aluminum".

 

[RonGinger]

George. please tell us a bit about chalk. Is it simply the old blackboard chalk rubbed into the file? Ive also got powered chalk used in a chalk line- is that useful? How much and how often do you chalk?

thanks

 

[minerva]

Ron re the chalk
I use ordinary blackboard chalk, (normally white but hey we could start a trend!!) applied to the file after using a file card or wire brush to clear any "pinning" (or clogging of the teeth) and repeat as necessary. You should find an improvement.
regards
terryt

 

[Cedge]

Somehow I wound up with a box of cue chalk, used for pool sticks. Works good and comes in a handy shape.

Steve

 

[Ken Bartlett]

Thanks all for the comments.

@cedge - Since most of all of my projects with involve soft material such as aluminum, I will look for that type of file. Great info, I had no ideal they made files for specific materials. I plan on investing in a good set, as well as chalk. I already consistently use a file card, as I have seen the "old timers" at the machine shop I work at use them religiously, and learned a bit from them. Maybe, with a lot of years of practice and alot of parts made, us youngins will be replacing the old timers of the world.

Thanks again.

 

[kd7fhg]

In responce to

Do you file dry, or with a lubricant? I tried it with WD-40 tonight and go a lot better results than doing it dry.

if you use an oil (even oil from your fingers) it will effect the cutting action of a file, it tends to just slip over the work. When doing file work do it dry and make sure the material you are working on is as clean as possable.

 

[gbritnell]

Hi Ron,
Terry answered the question but I'll add a little more. I also use blackboard chalk. With the file clean just rub the chalk across the file teeth till you get a nice even coating. I only use it on mill files or fine cut files. People generally think that only aluminum pins but any metal can to it if you get a chip really imbeded into the teeth.
George

 

[Deanofid]

Ken, you don't have to buy expensive files, but you do need good ones. Nicholson makes good ones for machine shop work. They're sharp, and stay that way for quite a while, and very reasonably priced.
For chalk, the kind George suggests works fine. The kind that you see kids using to draw on sidewalks works better, IMO.

I wrote an article concerning files and filing some months back in the Tips and Tricks section. Here, if you want to have a look: http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?topic=6781.0

Dean

 

[Ken Bartlett]

Thanks dean for the info. I did check out your previous thread on filing, very informative. I will take heed of the advice given.

 

[Cedge]

Ken
I do quite a bit of hand filing, both on and off the lathe and my favorite files are the cheap needle files one finds at Harbor Freight. They cut well and are fine enough to do finish work. The finish shaping on the current Tandem Poppet project was all done using these files. Today found me hand filing four small brass arms for the project, using the tiny half round bastard file to get the soft rounded edges I wanted.

Filing isn't just about gouging along with a big honking rasp. It's its own art form when you get the hang of it. It's also something I actually enjoy doing while i plan my next attack on the machines.

Steve

 

[tmuir]

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is keep a set of files for brass and one for steel.
When the ones for brass are loosing their bite make them the steel files.
A file used on steel won't ever cut as well on brass again.

 

[tel]

And Nicholson are about as good as you are going to get - I've used 'em for nearly 'arf a century (not the same ones, tho' some are getting up toward it)

 

[IDP]

Gents,

I use 'French' chalk which is harder. Also a file can be cleaned and sharpened by suspending it in acid ~~ sulphuric I believe ~~~ well that's the way a firm local to me used to reclaim files for industry. Also I have files used specifically just for non ferrous materials as I find a file for example used on steel will not cut brass very well.

Regards,

IDP

 

[Ken Bartlett]

Besides the obvious safety precations, is there any real tricks to lathe filing? I do it from time to time, with some hints gained from reading the Machinist Bedside Reader series. Any other tricks you more experience gentlemen have to offer will be appreciated.

 

[Maryak]

Ken,

ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS use a file handle.

Don't just hold the file onto the rotating piece but use a cutting stroke against the direction of rotation, lift the file and repeat.

Take an easily remembered no of cuts this way then measure the removal. Gives you some idea of how many strokes to achieve the desired result.

Hope this helps.

Best Regards
Bob

 

[Deanofid]

Naturally, you need to be aware of the spinning parts. If you are up to it, file left handed when filing on the lathe.
What Bob (Maryak) said is paramount to safety. Use a handle on the file. You should always have handles on your files anyway, but in the case of filing on the lathe, make absolutely no exceptions or excuses.

Run the lathe fairly slow. If you run it too fast, you have a good chance of getting some chatter.

Dean

 

[Ken Bartlett]

Thanks for the suggestions. I always pay close attention to what I am doing when filing on the lathe. I always have handles on my files, and take the time to do the job safely. Thanks for the advice.

 

[te_gui]

Another good tip, especially when filing up close to jaws is to run the lathe in reverse. This way the jaw wont catch the end of the file and throw it back at you. ill second or third the handle comment as well. I have seen the tang driven thru a co-workers palm when the chuck jaw caught it.

Brian