A new Lathe?

[hudmut]

well i do a lot of work on machine tools as part of my job and from what i have seen and from what i have my self chester is ok my own machine is chester and is very good but had a lot of mods done to it but the same machine at work is junk and is only 3 years old i wont even use it any more but warco is a lot better all round and they are great to deal with but i would all so look at axminster and speak to rod in sales he is a good chap and if you speak to him nice im sure he will look after you there is all so excl machine tools witch is one more step up in price for the same size machine but you do get that much more. All so dont forget to look on the home work shop web site as well there is all ways some thing on there as well

 

[deverett]

I debated with myself when buying a larger lathe whether to go for a new Chinese machine or second hand European machine.

I decided on a British machine - a Harrison M300 ex college. It had all the extras that would have been stripped off by a dealer. In truth a Chinese lathe would have come with all these bits anyway. It had had very little use, although the paint had been scratched by a student. I am delighted with my purchase (which, oh horror, I bought off eBay).

What swayed my decison was stories I had heard of the state that the Chinese lathes were delivered. e.g. casting sand still in the gearbox. Admitedly this was 4 years ago and Chinese quality control may have improved in that time. Anthony Mount did a series in ME about 5 years ago on what he had to do and wanted to do to a Warco BH600 lathe before being able to use it.

There have been recent posts in other fora about the lack of service from the Chinese importers - Warco and Chester. If you want to go down the new Chinese route, have you considered
http://www.engineerstoolroom.co.uk/

Dave
The Emerald Isle

 

[Stan]

Crewcab: The Crusader is only 20 mm bigger swing. In my experience with models, bed length never enters into the problem. It is always not enough swing and to small a hole in the spindle. If the price difference is within reason, I would go for the bigger hole. I have always had 10" (254 mm) swing lathes made in the US with a 3/4" (19 mm) spindle hole and it is one f the major frustrations.

 

[Jasonb]

The crusader will swing 16" with the gap piece removed, handy for flywheels and traction engine rims

Jason

 

[user 1618]

My head is spinning, so much for a simple choice of lathe. there seems to be almost too many sizes, not to mention makes out there these days.

The crusader look good and i think this is the warco version
http://www.warco.co.uk/productimages/documents/P43.pdf

As soon as you mention fitted DRO and the spindle bore i note that the shelf price for both is around £3k which is £1.5k more than say the VM280V-F. i could have a mill for the diference.

I need more scotch, my head hurts with info overload. ;D

 

[Jasonb]

A lot will depend on what you want to make, the 280 will be fine for stationary steam engines as most of these were designed with the 9" swing of a Myford gap bed in mind. Upto a 2" traction engine is possible as are most IC engines unless you want to get into large hit & miss models.

My choice was also affected by weight and size, the 12" machines were just that bit too big/heavy.

Jason

 

[user 1618]

Thats true, initially stationay steam and ic, eventually a nice bently rotary in a few years and maybe a 5" loco at some point.

i lke the look of this one http://www.warco.co.uk/productimages/documents/P39.pdf and not toob bad a price

 

[hudmut]

That is a point when i looked in to my first lathe id done my ground work looking at what was best and what models i wanted to do and all so what mods was being done to my pick of machines. Like Jason B said the Myford will do a 9" fly wheel witch was the size of the model kits i was looking at in the end i whent for a Chester 9*20 lathe witch is the same size as a Myford (so i was told) well i can tell you i was not happy to fine out that i could only get 8.3/4 " job in with out clamps on the out side of the job in to the lathe when i was told it would do 9" and this was after 9 mouths of ownership so no come back so be care full. but if you are looking at some thing like the Bentley rotary there is a lot of tiny bits in there and yes it is great to have a big lathe but some times it can be a pain because all the tooling is so much bigger and you cant get in to make tiny valves because the tail stock, tool post, a bit chuck, and so on gets in the way so some times there can be a happy half way point.. if i hat to pick what i could have in a given space id have a mid size lathe and a mid size mill witch i have all ready and the only thing i have not been abel to do is the fly wheel for my traction engine witch is no bother because as iv got in to this Hobbes iv made some good pals who are all ways willing to help and let me use there machine for 5 mins. witch if you read on here some more you will see that there is all ways some one is willing to get you out of a hole.

 

[The Artful Bodger]

PeeWee, I bought a lathe that is the same as the Chester Crusader. It had been on the shop floor for a long time and I never expected to buy anything so big but when I got talking about the smaller machines on offer the Crusader-clone with a bit of discount became very attractive. I have not regretted this at all.

I knew nothing about lathes or metal turning, had never had my hand on one since school days in the '60s and six months after buying the lathe I doubtless still dont know much but what I do know is that I have never yearned for a smaller machine in that time.

John

 

[Blogwitch]

Peewee,

I have the Chesters Crusader, and because they were so popular, you couldn't see one in the flesh, as you had to wait for delivery from China.

On my receipt of the lathe, and subsequent build up in my shop, a lot of errors came to light, mainly the advertising blurb stating it could do things, but in fact it couldn't in it's current state of build. Plus a few minor niggles about build quality, a nick in the bed, paint overspray etc. Chester wanted to swap it out straight away, but me being a nasty ba****d, I wanted my pound of flesh as well.

To cut a long story short, Chester UK rebuilt a lathe for me to my specs, invited me to inspect it at the showroom, to see that it was up to my requirements, and swapped it out, putting the new lathe in exactly the same place as the old unused one, plus a few very nice sweeteners were left behind for me as well.

Actually, all the sales literature has now been modified, and the machine as well, because of my issues.

Would I buy another from them, you bet I would. I have dealt with all the others, and I am a master moaner and complainer, and Chester is the only one that comes back with an instant, no arguments changeover and repair policy, problems usually sorted by the next day. Most of the others will start with the same excuse of 'it's a manufacturing fault and there is nothing we can do', then you have to start getting nasty. You have to remember, these people are not the manufacturers, just box shifters. It just so happens that Chesters has a very good team of dedicated repair people to put things right when the manufacturers make a b**ls up.

With regards to lathe choice, that can only be your decision, no-one elses. But some of the comments I have seen on here do really need addressing.

A large lathe WILL make tiny components, your worry should be not to buy a lathe that is too small for your future needs. The old saying comes into it, what will do a lot will do a little, but not the other way around.

The other issue of spindle bore. You will find with far eastern machines, you will get the largest bore that can safely be accommodated in the spindle without losing rigidity. Old designed home grown machines usually went for the belt and braces approach, and gave very small spindle bores. Far eastern machines have come a long way in the last few years, and problems with the machines are usually operator related, not knowing how to set them up correctly, and not with the build quality.

I have not modified my machine in any way to get better performance, just tweaked with the settings that are there to be tweaked, and I would put it up against an overpriced, underspecced, and out of date designed Myford any day of the week.

So really, look for a lathe that will handle what you want to do in the future, find if it has the specs you want, ie power feeds, geared head, accessories available, and if it is within your price and size range. Find a reliable supplier who will put right any niggles, and then just go for it.

Blogs

 

[Peter Neill]

My 2penniesworth – I wouldn’t buy another Lathe from Chester unless they were the last lathe manufacturer on the planet, and even then with some trepidation. Everyone has their own opinion and experience, so you have to make your own mind up from the good and bad, but I was very disappointed 5 years ago.

I bought a DB10G (predecessor to the DB11), it arrived promptly, was unpacked and set up, and then I found the following.

The saddle wouldn’t get closer than 6” to the chuck before binding up – it was loose at the tailstock end.
It was advertised and sold to me as having a leadscrew reverse – which it didn’t.
It had horrendous vibration except at the lowest (125rpm speed).
The tailstock would not move more than 1/3rd of the way up the bed due to huge casting lumps on the inside of the bed.

I spoke to Garry Rimmer at Chester who was very helpful and agreed to take this one back and send another one out. This arrived 1 week later.

On the second one, which was obviously made in a different factory as all the castings and the handles and the headstock charts were different. I found this:

Still no leadscrew reverse.
More than half the change gears missing (same as the first one actually), so no chance of any screwcutting. Also have a look at the screwcutting chart picture below, and you try and work it out.
No graduated dials or reference points on leadscrew/cross-slide
Major slop in longitudinal feed handle which would need re-bushing, and it constantly popped out of mesh when trying to manually traverse.
Huge amounts of casting sand still on everything – the picture of the faceplate below that came with the Lathe is a perfect example of the quality/lack of it.

I rejected this one back as well, and asked for my money back as they now explained that the marketing details with the leadscrew reverse actually referred to the ‘Optimum’ lathe sold in Germany, and not the DB10G.
Had a lot of hassle getting money back and the Lathe picked up, but got there eventually.

My advice would be to talk to Warco instead.

Peter

 

[Blogwitch]

And what do you have now Peter, and where from?

Blogs

 

[Peter Neill]

I've got a short-bed Bantam 1600.
Bought it with 2 x 3-jaw chucks, 2 x4-jaw chucks, faceplate, got a full set of change gears (incl. 127T metric transposing gear), Dickson QCTP with 8 holders, coolant, fixed and revolving centres, tailstock drill chuck, & 2-speed motor. I recently added a 5C collet chuck. All for £1000, and it's quiet, and relatively unworn (hardened bed).

Prior to that and immediately after the DB10G, I bought a scrap-heap ML7 which I completely restored, then finally sold that on earlier this year.

Here's a piccie of the Bantam with my Bridgy and 540 Grinder

I would have liked a longer bed, but as you can see space for me is a bit tight, but if I need something bigger we have 2 more Colchesters in our toolroom that I can use. I'm very happy with the Bantam, does everything I need. I can take a 0.250" cut or shave off a tenth with equal ease.
Being a gear-head makes it easy to use, screwcutting is a breeze, and I can even cut 3.5 TPI oil grooves into bronze swing-arm bearings for my Bike ;D

Peter

 

[PhiberOptix]

Here's a piccie of the Bantam with my Bridgy and 540 Grinder

Peter

Nice setup quick question for you, i can see the electric box behind the bridgeport, how much did it cost you to have 3 phase installed?

Sorry for deviating of the topic

Regards
Andy

 

[Peter Neill]

Thanks Andy.

Believe it or not I don't have pukka 3-phase installed. all the machines run off a 4HP/3kW static phase convertor, the box on the wall is a distribution/junction box I made up. You can see this a bit better in the picture below.
The phase convertor sits up high on a shelf behind the Bridgy, and feeds into the box via the cable coming in top left. The cable exiting top right goes round the top of the wall to a 3-phase socket for the Lathe, with 2 more sockets coming out below for the Mill & Grinder.
It was just neater doing it this way rather than running trailing leads all over the place.

Peter