1045 Steel

[gmac]

Has anyone had experience with using 1045 steel in small model IC engines for things like cylinder liners, cranks, cams and gears? What does it machine and perform like when machined on small lathe and mill (ie Taig)? The reason for the question is that I've encountered difficulty locating small quantities/correct sizes locally (BC, Canada) of 1144 Stressproof and 12L14 which I'd prefer, but would have to order out of the Seattle USA. Locally I can get 1045 (the only other alternative being 1018 or drill rod).
Thanks
Garry

 

[rake60]

Garry
1045 steel is a good resource to have available.
It is "user friendly" in the aspect that it will cut easily and has the strength for most
model engine projects.

The shop I work for does use 1018 cold roll for less than critical parts manufacture.
It is even more user friendly than 1045.
Given a choice, I'd take the 1018 for home work, (play).

Rick

 

[gmac]

Thanks Rick.
How much real world difference is there in the machinability of these steels - 1018/1045/1144/12L14 in light machinery (Taig)? Since I haven't noticed a significant price difference in these steels I'm tempted to just go with 1144 for my cranks, cylinder sleeves, cams, gears etc., order form the USA and be done with it. I'm assuming 1144 is strong enough, easy enough to machine and good enough not to need heat treat or case hardening for these sizes of IC engines. Certainly would simplify my "stock room"!! Not to mention avoid the problem of trying to identify which is which....
Garry

 

[GailInNM]

Garry,
With a light lathe, I would recommend you use 12L14 as your general purpose alloy. It is much easier to machine than any of the others you are considering. With a larger and more rigid machine it does not make so much difference. 12L14 is stronger than 1018 but weaker than either 1045 or 1144.

A lot will depend on your application also.

If you are going to build small glow ignition IC engines, that is less than 2.5 cc, then 12L14 will probably be adequate for everything except maybe cams and cam followers that you will want to harden if you expect to run a lot. I use 12L14 for cylinder liners using cast iron pistons with no wear problems, but I have probably never run an IC engine more than 10 hours. However, some commercial engines have used 12L14 for liners.

For hit or miss engines, 12 L 14 is adequate for everything. That's all that I use for everything, including gears.

If you are going to build an inline 4 cylinder engine with a one piece crankshaft, 12L14 will warp some on you, but it is not a terrible job to remove the warp, and the warping can be reduced a lot by taking a skim cut of 0.02 inch off the outside before you start the main machining. Most of the stress is in the skin of cold rolled. For this application 1144 is much nicer, but I find that it is more time consuming to machine the crankpins than it is to straighten the 12L14.

One other consideration is that 12L14 is more forgiving of cutting tool geometry than any of the others. This may be of importance to you if you have limited lathe tool grinding experience.

Last item is about availability. 1018 is easy to find any where. 12L14 is the most common used screw machine steel and frequently there are ends available from screw machine shops. Most of the time there are 12l14 cutoffs on ebay at good prices. There is one company in eastern Canada that advertises cutoffs on ebay quite often, but I just looked and did not see any listing from them at the moment. I forget the name as I had no need to buy from him.

Tell us a little more about what you are wanting to build and maybe one of us can help confuse you even more.

Gail in NM,USA

 

[Mainer]

My favorite is 1144. Though 12L14 machines well, I've pretty much given up on leaded steel because of its amazing affinity for rust.

 

[gmac]

Thanks for the reply's everyone. To answer Gail's question about what I'm building - I'm starting out with an Upshur Twin and a few variations of Upshur's hit and miss farm engines. Eventually want to build Ron Colonna"s Offy and L.K. Blackmore's Bentley BR2, but there'll be a lot of mistakes made between here and there! And some heavier equipment will need to be purchased. For the time being I'll build what the Taig will build.

I don't really have an interest in small model airplane glow engines so high RPM stuff is off the table. Replica demonstration engines that will see minimal run time are where my interests lie.

Any and all input much appreciated.
Thanks
Garry

 

[shred]

FWIW, Taig uses 12L14 for most of the steel parts and accessories on the Taigs themselves. I've turned 1" 12L14 on mine and it's cut well. I've not tried 1144 however.

 

[David Morrow]

gmac, have you tried the Metal Supermarket ? I just checked and it looks like they probably have most steels that are needed for our sorts of projects. They have locations in Burnaby & Langley. I've bought brass from the Burnaby store -they actually brought it in from Langley for me. They're a bit east and south of Brentwood mall.

The web site shows 1045 in flats & round as well as most of the others mentioned above.

http://www.metalsupermarkets.com/MSC-storefinder.aspx?map=CAN&REGION=BC

 

[gmac]

Hi David;
I've ordered several times from Metal Supermarket. However; despite what the website lists as available, their inventory can be a different story. I've learned that I need to go online and request a quote on price/availability after which they fax me a quote and iterate the order a second time. Also confusing is the three or four store locations in Vancouver Metro - at times I don't know if something is not in stock at Langley but available elsewhere or not in stock (BC) period. I've requested quotes from different stores but had them all get funneled back to the Langley store...so....?

All that said they do provide great service - no problems ordering a foot of this, 4 inches of that, they take Mastercard and ship fast and at fair shipping prices (given my location). In my case I have them ship Greyhound and pick up at the depot.

After I posted here I ordered some 12L14 from them, unfortunately C1144 is only available in metric sizes with very limited range and only as ground and finished (premium price - Online Metals is much cheaper for C1144). Bearing bronze and cast irons are only available in large diameters and/or large quantities so I continue to search for sources for these metals.

Vancouver Metals Ltd in North Van (no min. order) looked promising but they've never responded to e-mails. Terra Nova Steel (Edmonton) carries a wide range of bronzes and cast irons but the cast irons have a min. dia of 2.00in, bearing bronze 0.5in min and some of the other bronzes are large min orders and long lead times.

I'd like to find cast iron for piston rings (probably just head to the auto junk yard) - the bearing material can wait, it's for engines I plan for later when my skills develop!!! Brass can do for the bearings of the small engines I'm starting with.

I'll probably put together an order for Online Metals for C1144 and some stainless/copper/brass tubing - they are offering "streamlined" shipping for Canadian customers - we'll give them the test! Had any experience with them?

Thanks for the input Dave

Cheers
Garry

 

[David Morrow]

gmac, where in BC are you ?

 

[gmac]

Penticton

 

[dan s]

I don't know if they ship to CA or not, but you might try here: http://www.onlinemetalsupply.com/

Most of the stuff they sell is offcuts so it's cheap, but sometimes oddly sized. The will do cut to order if needed.

 

[machinist dave]

seeing as your in Penticton, go into Waycon manf. and see if you can get some offcuts, who knows what you'l find.

 

[machinist dave]

you'l find enough scraps around the saw to last a few yrs.

 

[gmac]

Dave
Thanks for the tip - I know of the company but have never been to their facilities. I'm off work tomorrow so I may stop in to Waycon. I take it you're a local?
Cheers,
Garry

 

[machinist dave]

i was for awhile now i'm in alberta makin prototype oil field stuff.