What have you been doing today?
- Thread starter Shelton
- Start date
Help Support Home Model Engine Machinist Forum:
It seems like a long time I've been working on a fuel tank and other peripherals for a 1902 Meriam-Abbott. (Another Doug Kelley model)
Today I finally brazed the tank parts together. I'd been trying to make a tank with rounded or domed ends, and I like how it came out
In the second picture, it wasn't brazed yet, and the legs are too long.
Still figuring how all the parts will be placed on a stand, but it's coming.
Doug
Today I finally brazed the tank parts together. I'd been trying to make a tank with rounded or domed ends, and I like how it came out
In the second picture, it wasn't brazed yet, and the legs are too long.
Still figuring how all the parts will be placed on a stand, but it's coming.
Doug
I made a die and punch and squeeze d them in the vise 
they got out of order, but you get the idea. There is a ring of copper inside that makes the joint solid. ( A ring with enough cut out that it fits inside the tube snugly)
I used the punch side in the lathe to trim off the wrinkled parts.
Doug
they got out of order, but you get the idea. There is a ring of copper inside that makes the joint solid. ( A ring with enough cut out that it fits inside the tube snugly)
I used the punch side in the lathe to trim off the wrinkled parts.
Doug
Last edited:
Hi Doug,
I like the press-work. I have wondered about doing that myself. What diameter is the tank (2"?), what thickness of copper, and what depth of press (1/4"?)?
Had you considered mounting the tank vertically? (Then it could have 3 legs?). Does it need to be at/above/below the carburettor? (Is there a float bowl from a gravity feed?).
Have you tried spinning against the former?
K2
I like the press-work. I have wondered about doing that myself. What diameter is the tank (2"?), what thickness of copper, and what depth of press (1/4"?)?
Had you considered mounting the tank vertically? (Then it could have 3 legs?). Does it need to be at/above/below the carburettor? (Is there a float bowl from a gravity feed?).
Have you tried spinning against the former?
K2
K2,
I tried spinning another part and was not happy with the results. My lathe is just not set up for that.
The tank is 1-1/2" copper plumbing pipe I found around the house. 1/16"wall, so 1-5/8" OD. I cut a piece from the tube, cut it in half, flattened and annealed it to make the end caps. The die is 5/8" deep and I got 3/8" of wrinkle-less cap out of that.
The carburetor is very simple, no float bowl, so the tank can't be too high. I think I will set the top of the tank a little above needle valve level, so as not to have it leak.
I wouldn't have thought to put the tank vertically, I guess I just don't see gas tanks that way. It would cause greater column
(head) pressure, so maybe make height placement more difficult. Three legs? maybe.
When I pressed the end caps, I greased the die and punch and was surprised how easy the press was. I had done one not annealed and it was more difficult to press and not as well formed. This also reminded me that I keep meaning to build an arbor press.
Clean up after the silver braze was a bit of a chore. The joint is mostly inside and the butt joint between the cap and body but braze had to be added from the outside and coated more area than I had intended.
I'll post some more pictures when I get them transferred.
Doug
I tried spinning another part and was not happy with the results. My lathe is just not set up for that.
The tank is 1-1/2" copper plumbing pipe I found around the house. 1/16"wall, so 1-5/8" OD. I cut a piece from the tube, cut it in half, flattened and annealed it to make the end caps. The die is 5/8" deep and I got 3/8" of wrinkle-less cap out of that.
The carburetor is very simple, no float bowl, so the tank can't be too high. I think I will set the top of the tank a little above needle valve level, so as not to have it leak.
I wouldn't have thought to put the tank vertically, I guess I just don't see gas tanks that way. It would cause greater column
(head) pressure, so maybe make height placement more difficult. Three legs? maybe.
When I pressed the end caps, I greased the die and punch and was surprised how easy the press was. I had done one not annealed and it was more difficult to press and not as well formed. This also reminded me that I keep meaning to build an arbor press.
Clean up after the silver braze was a bit of a chore. The joint is mostly inside and the butt joint between the cap and body but braze had to be added from the outside and coated more area than I had intended.
I'll post some more pictures when I get them transferred.
Doug
Hi Doug.
When silver soldering/brazing, you can ue a good soft pencil to shade an area beyond the joint to prevent the flow of solder to that area. The graphite may burn off in red-hot conditions, but the clay in the pencil lead will remain and manage to prevent excess solder wetting a cosmetic surface. Try-it and see? A copper smith had a soft pencil and he just drew lines where the limit of braze filler was supposed to go... Really neat finished joints.
You could also try chalk? - Or fire-clay (fire-brick cement), or car exhaust pipe sealant? - Any other suggestions from those who have done it?
K2
When silver soldering/brazing, you can ue a good soft pencil to shade an area beyond the joint to prevent the flow of solder to that area. The graphite may burn off in red-hot conditions, but the clay in the pencil lead will remain and manage to prevent excess solder wetting a cosmetic surface. Try-it and see? A copper smith had a soft pencil and he just drew lines where the limit of braze filler was supposed to go... Really neat finished joints.
You could also try chalk? - Or fire-clay (fire-brick cement), or car exhaust pipe sealant? - Any other suggestions from those who have done it?
K2
mcostello
Member
White-out supposedly works also.
I have used white-out and it worked ok. I didn't think this would be a problem and didn't consider using it. While something as a mask would have been a good idea, it cleaned up well but was more work than it had to be.
Doug
Doug
Once the ends are soldered into the body, could you not just carefully chuck the tank in the lathe with the outside protected from marring by the jaws, and turn the joint area to blend it while at the same time removing any exterior exposed or extra solder? That would result in a smooth transition from the body to the caps.
Almega,
I tried exactly that. I carefully centered in a 4 jaw chuck, supported the end with a pad on a live center and tried to
turn away the excess. I don’t know if the tube wasn’t round or if it was flexible enough to deform in the chuck,
but it cut some parts and missed others. It did reduce the amount I had to file and sand, so it was a definite help.
It was a good idea and should have worked. Thanks.
Doug
I tried exactly that. I carefully centered in a 4 jaw chuck, supported the end with a pad on a live center and tried to
turn away the excess. I don’t know if the tube wasn’t round or if it was flexible enough to deform in the chuck,
but it cut some parts and missed others. It did reduce the amount I had to file and sand, so it was a definite help.
It was a good idea and should have worked. Thanks.
Doug
Hi Doug.
When silver soldering/brazing, you can ue a good soft pencil to shade an area beyond the joint to prevent the flow of solder to that area. The graphite may burn off in red-hot conditions, but the clay in the pencil lead will remain and manage to prevent excess solder wetting a cosmetic surface. Try-it and see? A copper smith had a soft pencil and he just drew lines where the limit of braze filler was supposed to go... Really neat finished joints.
You could also try chalk? - Or fire-clay (fire-brick cement), or car exhaust pipe sealant? - Any other suggestions from those who have done it?
K2
I've used tippex with quite good success
regards
Paul
When silver soldering/brazing, you can ue a good soft pencil to shade an area beyond the joint to prevent the flow of solder to that area. The graphite may burn off in red-hot conditions, but the clay in the pencil lead will remain and manage to prevent excess solder wetting a cosmetic surface. Try-it and see? A copper smith had a soft pencil and he just drew lines where the limit of braze filler was supposed to go... Really neat finished joints.
You could also try chalk? - Or fire-clay (fire-brick cement), or car exhaust pipe sealant? - Any other suggestions from those who have done it?
K2
I've used tippex with quite good success
regards
Paul
When Tippex goes dry and hard, acetone or Carbon tetra-chloride/ethane type solvent (Nail varnish cleaner, or Hammerite thinners) will work to re-wet it. But I find shading with a graphite pencil, or china clay pencil, to be more accurate when required, rather than the blodging of white stuff that is my old bottle and brush!
But each to his own.
K2
But each to his own.
K2
Last edited:
I suspect chalk may burn-off in a hot job if there is excess carbon in the flame? But I have not tried that one.
I GUESS that TIppex is actually a mix of Titanium Dioxide and acetone, so the Tioxide is left when dried. So that should not burn-off while brazing.
K2
I GUESS that TIppex is actually a mix of Titanium Dioxide and acetone, so the Tioxide is left when dried. So that should not burn-off while brazing.
K2
mcostello
Member
Wonder if soap stone, welders marking chalk would work?
Try it and tell us?
K2
K2
Bentwings
Well-Known Member
Eel another blood test so far no posted results relatively painless other than needle stick . Left arm didn’t work so right arm did . They take 7 or more vials plus on for I &R test have doc visit scheduled for next week. Some kind of heart scan. New thing I haven’t had this for quite some time so we will see what’s up . Nothing I hope . I’ve had my fill of bad news
Not today, but yesterday morning. About 6AM, I was on my way to work when a truck with a small, enclosed trailer hit me driver side front. Spun me around 270 degrees and stalled my truck. Surprisingly, no airbags deployed. I am mostly unscathed, except for a deep bruise on my left ankle, and a badly sprained right ankle. I went to urgent care last night for x-rays, and nothing broken, so I took the day off to keep off my feet.
That piece of metal hanging off the back bumper is the fender from the trailer.
That piece of metal hanging off the back bumper is the fender from the trailer.
Attachments
Ouch!
Glad you weren’t hurt any worse!
Doug
Glad you weren’t hurt any worse!
Doug
Airbags need front-to rear direction of acceleration to trigger, unless you have side-impact airbags fitted. Being spun around is a relatively safe way to lose energy from the impact. You are in the middle of the car rotating near the centre of rotation. So low-g. LUCKY YOU!
Side impacts where you just go sideways are most damaging, as the brain is closer to the skull on the sides the front and rear (re: concussion). 5g fore and aft is a limit you don't want to experience. But 2g sideways can be worse!
LUCKY YOU!
Just watch for any signs of concussion for the next 3 days or so... ANY headache, nausea, etc. - get medical advice!
Take care,
You'll be changing your monica from "rleete" to "Arl-reet" I hope!
LUCKY YOU. It really could have been a lot worse.
K2
Side impacts where you just go sideways are most damaging, as the brain is closer to the skull on the sides the front and rear (re: concussion). 5g fore and aft is a limit you don't want to experience. But 2g sideways can be worse!
LUCKY YOU!
Just watch for any signs of concussion for the next 3 days or so... ANY headache, nausea, etc. - get medical advice!
Take care,
You'll be changing your monica from "rleete" to "Arl-reet" I hope!
LUCKY YOU. It really could have been a lot worse.
K2
