Tee nuts/studs from scratch

[JCSteam]

Hi, can anyone give me some ideas on making Tee nuts for the lathe and faceplate.

I'm thinking to start with a square piece of steel in the chuck the same dimension as the width of the tee at the widest point. Then machine of the two mating faces that will run in the grooves, by holding the steel length ways in the 4 jaw.

Then turn the steel rectangle parralel to the bed to reduce to a round shaft that will fit into the narrower section in the tee grooves. Then just turn the rest to a suitable size for the thread I'll use.

I'm just working on the theory of making tooling at the moment so no measurements as this will be measured from the ML4 lathe. I was going to use a metric thread M8 or M10 which ever is closer to the final diameter of the narrower grooves in the cross slide. But I'm wondering if there's a better thread like BSW that would enable me to nip it up quicker with less turning of the spanner?

 

[bazmak]

One way is to start with a piece of sq steel,hold in the 4 jaw,drill and tap
and turn a round spigot to fit the slot,both dims do not need to be sq
The lower section of the T slot can be sq or rect. the top can be round
If you have a mill then you can mill a length of T and cut to length

One other way is to turn a top hat section with a large dia then file or mill
2 flats
Keep the tapped hole,screw size at least 2mm smaller that the width of the top slot
so you dont brea thru.IE for a 12mm slot i use 10 or 8 or 6 screws or special as reqd
LET me know the size of the T slot

 

[Wizard69]

Are we talking T nuts or T bolts here? I ask because it sounds like you are making T bolts.

Hi, can anyone give me some ideas on making Tee nuts for the lathe and faceplate.

For T-nuts I prefer to start with some bare stock at least as wide as the bottom part of the T slot. Put it in a vise mill the shoulders and drill the holes to be taped. You might want to avoid power tapping though as you don't want good threads going all the way through the T-Nuts. In the vise you should be able to handle a piece long enough to give you 4 -5 nuts, probably a lot more for small T-nuts. After all the holes are drilled and tapped cut off the individual nuts.

I'm thinking to start with a square piece of steel in the chuck the same dimension as the width of the tee at the widest point. Then machine of the two mating faces that will run in the grooves, by holding the steel length ways in the 4 jaw.

Then turn the steel rectangle parralel to the bed to reduce to a round shaft that will fit into the narrower section in the tee grooves. Then just turn the rest to a suitable size for the thread I'll use.

I'm having problems following because it sounds like you are talking about T-Bolts here.

I'm just working on the theory of making tooling at the moment so no measurements as this will be measured from the ML4 lathe. I was going to use a metric thread M8 or M10 which ever is closer to the final diameter of the narrower grooves in the cross slide. But I'm wondering if there's a better thread like BSW that would enable me to nip it up quicker with less turning of the spanner?

The thread pitch you use is up to you. I would tend to avoid extremely high pitched threads, leaning towards fine pitches. Yes fine pitch thread increase the need to spin the nuts but that can be addressed by having plenty of stud lengths.

I might suggest that you think about thread sizes a bit as you want to avoid a proliferation of shaft diameters for fixturing bolts and hardware. The interesting thing here is that I'm currently working on clamps and parts for use on a Mini Pallet. In this case I went with 1/4-28 as it is the same thread size as on a tool post I have and is just a bit beefier than the 10-32 some use. For full size needs I'd probably stick with 1/2" or 12 mm, if of course they fit the machine properly.

In any event the idea here is to avoid duplication of diameters and trying to make your investment widely applicable to the machinery you have. It also pays to make sure commercial products available locally are compatible unless you plan on making everything yourself. The big issue here being good quality heavy nuts.

 

[JCSteam]

Wizard69 thank you for your response, in depth though I am afraid I am intending in making most if the tooling myself. In my view clamps, especially bolts don't need to be perfect. I am looking to bolts as opposed to nuts, as these wiĺl be easy to move between clamping surface. The faceplate of the ml4 had the same width as the tee nut holes in the cross slide.

I know I'm switching between the two ideas here, (nuts a tee bolts) but I want to see which is the better option. £50 For a full clamping set or make them custom to me For less than a couple of quid and adjust to suit.

 

[JCSteam]

One way is to start with a piece of sq steel,hold in the 4 jaw,drill and tap
and turn a round spigot to fit the slot,both dims do not need to be sq
The lower section of the T slot can be sq or rect. the top can be round
If you have a mill then you can mill a length of T and cut to length

One other way is to turn a top hat section with a large dia then file or mill
2 flats
Keep the tapped hole,screw size at least 2mm smaller that the width of the top slot
so you dont brea thru.IE for a 12mm slot i use 10 or 8 or 6 screws or special as reqd
LET me know the size of the T slot

I think you explained my method there but without machining the flats I have an old Myford ML4 lathe, and a 6x4' shed! I have no budget for tooling a DTI at £15 is a big investment lol. (The lathe motor and tooling cost me £300 remember ). Machining tee nuts, or bolts is my option. The lathe is the only tool I'll ever need I heard somewhere. So I need to put that to practice lol

 

[ShopShoe]

Everyone has provided information already, but MrPete also has a video on this subject:

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAnXgxZ16m8[/ame]

--ShopShoe

 

[goldstar31]

All that I have is a black rectangle in Windows7 Professional but found 'something' with on Apple about a Bridgeport which JC Steam and I do not possess.

Whether Mr Pete even knows what a Myford - of any sort is a matter of some conjecture. So let us be clear about information from someone who has presently two Myfords and has overhauled a pre-War Myford ML. What the number is is merely academic because the tee slots are non standard. Moreover, there has been a continued risk that in the event of a 'big bang' the tee slots can fracture and a tee bolt literally torn out. For those who might have eventually aspired to read Cleeves Screwcutting in the Lathe might notice that his ML7 has a very non standard saddle. Cleeve, despite his professionalism, experienced a Big Dig in - and wrote about it in Model Engineer.
Even without such an experience, incorrect procedures risk distorting the saddle top or boring table. My first Super 7B incidentally from Darlington was warped by the previous owner! To describe just how difficult it was to hand scrape it back beggars belief!

I must leave my somewhat acerbic comments for JC Steam to meditate on.

Yesterday, I was discussing Myford Tee Bolts with the owner of two new-ish Super7B's and an almost virginal 'Bridgy' and his considered opinion was -- to buy correct nuts. As a sort of post script, my new set are awaiting the time when they will fix a vertical slide- ex Myford onto the Sieg4. Once I make the tee nuts for the Sieg-- I hasten to add.

Norm

 

[JCSteam]

Hi Norm, are you saying that the best method is to use Nuts and studs over bolts so as to create a weak point for in the event of a dig in.

Norm makes a good point, although the video is informative, the lack of such a machine means that I am left to make these on the lathe only.

So the method in the original post is the only way I can think to make the bolts.

 

[DJP]

Buy the clamping set that fits. It's a one time investment that when spread over centuries is miniscule. The clamping set will come with enough different sizes that you can quickly create a jig to suit the work piece. Unless you are doing receptive work you will always be creating custom hold down clamps that seldom get used again.


Just some thoughts for your consideration.

 

[goldstar31]

Possibly the 'best' answer is to buy- and in a variety of lengths to suit whatever purpose which comes along. Failing this, I would go for getting a copy of George Thomas's Model Engineers Workshop Manual and follow his pedantic diatribe on Setting Up aids. Again, I would arm myself with the Martin Cleeve article from Model Engineer. There are other ways but between Cleeve and Thomas, you get a fair apprenticeship which despite the cost will amply repay your outlay. As for so called Myford tee bolts, I would use 7/8ths round mild steel and I would still work in BSF. The reason is that you are using a very Imperial lathe whilst I, for my sins, is hybridising between the two.
Again, I might be slicing 16mm square, tapping 7 mm and then tapping 8mm ISO and slicing and fitting stainless steel 8mm studding but I am a Certified Welder ( or was) and double Distinctions in City And Guilds and can silver solder or Mig. You have yet to gain such experiences- but will.

Sadly, I'm in one of those Catch22 positions because of Old Age and Infirmary and am paying more than 3 times the cost of your lathe for annual car insurance and that is with a limit of only 2000 miles per annum. In other words, I cannot get to Darlington to see you.
I'm not moaning but merely explaining.

So follow existing and soundly tested Model engineering techniques.

My best wishes

Norm

 

[JCSteam]

Thanks Norm, I would love you to come visit, but fully understand I might be free next weekend, armed with two new back tyres for the motor, (bloody cost me £110) I could come to you instead if you like.

I'll go with what you say about keeping it all imperial.

These nuts/bolts, clamps are basically just to gain some experience using the lathe. Also to learn some techniques for clamping different lumps to the cross slide. As I said if I'm out on my measuring this won't make too much difference For what they are intended for. There was a flycutter that came with the lathe, but one of the cutting tips need remaking. As it's snapped in half. I want to try this out by mounting something in the clamps and taking facing cuts to see how accurate the tool is. Before i invest in an MT2 flycutter that is. No point buying what you already got

 

[goldstar31]

At present, I have a new shed which is going to receive external wood cladding tomorrow and hopefully will be lined. Then I have to install a ring main- before I put all my junk/tools etc back on shelves which I have yet to make-- did I hear 'LOL'?

Then- I have to do a far more time consuming task in trying to clear up the continuing problems of my late wife's and mine 'estate'
At the present, it is already almost exactly two years since my wife died and it is no way settled yet.

Probably the easiest and quickest way is to take a break and perhaps shove a tool and cutter grinder into the back of my little car and some hss lathe tools. Then, later, I would welcome your visit. I fancy re-installing the ML10 which is fairly close to your ML4 in the new workshop and you could 'have a go'

I'm really looking forward to being in a position to having spare time to devote to a hobby and have someone to share the experience.

Meantime, we both have phones?

Best wishes

Norm

 

[bmac2]

I think you explained my method there but without machining the flats I have an old Myford ML4 lathe, and a 6x4' shed! I have no budget for tooling a DTI at £15 is a big investment lol. (The lathe motor and tooling cost me £300 remember ). Machining tee nuts, or bolts is my option. The lathe is the only tool I'll ever need I heard somewhere. So I need to put that to practice lol

Hi JC
The “Top Hat” style Bazmak mentioned using round stock is the fastest and easiest way to make T nuts without a mill. I’ve made dozens of these for on my ML7. Just tap the hole, machine down the Top Hat to fit the depth and width to your slot, part it off, file the flats and repeat.

 

[goldstar31]

Within its limited context, I agree but my very salutary 'aide memoire' is the bottom of a mark 1 Myford Super 7top slide where the round spigot is only 2/3rds remaining. Whichever way one looks at it, it is rather an expensive situation and the probable conclusion of a model engineering hobby! I have no idea who the unfortunate was, I merely received it as part of a bit to salvage the top instead of making a Radford fixed top slide. Again, I have a Super 7 B where many of the gears were stripped and lacking new spares on the shelf had to be replaced 'in house' JC Steam will have the opportunity to see things for himself rather than a 'correspondence course'

Oddly, in my present changeover towards a bigger shed, I came across a 'Tee bar'- no, not the beloved meat hooks of some ski resorts where they catch the pockets of ski pants and things become somewhat frost bitten. This tee bar actually had TWO 1/4" BSF tappings and went with a rear parting tool holder which had 'belt and braces of a whole 3/8th Myford type holding down bolt.

In the likely event of a dig in, the parting blade( one of two) would break- which is a damned sight cheaper than a new steel boring table( or worse)

So how was this miserable but useful thing made? It was probably held in either a three chunks of steel bolted into a pillar which requires no milling or lump of steel firmly bolted to the boring table with the bolts located inside rather than Jerry rigged.
There is nothing new in all this, every model engineer had a thing like steel or iron block to pepper with holes-- or do they? Surprisingly they are just as good as a mill or a vertical slide - with its almost obligatory Myford vice.

'Nuff said? My coffee is getting cold.

Regards

Norm

 

[Wizard69]

Obviously if you have the time making the components yourself is a good approach. It is also a good bit of practice.

I mentioned buying T-Bolts because many of them on the market are forged and of pretty high quality. Even so they are inexpensive compared to going the full monty and heat treating your own t-bolts.

The reality is you don't need heat treated high strength bolts in the home shop anyways. As for making your own there are probably dozens of ways to do this and likely depends upon the tools you have available. I'd probably do all the turning first and then do the shoulders in a collet block.

Wizard69 thank you for your response, in depth though I am afraid I am intending in making most if the tooling myself. In my view clamps, especially bolts don't need to be perfect. I am looking to bolts as opposed to nuts, as these wiĺl be easy to move between clamping surface. The faceplate of the ml4 had the same width as the tee nut holes in the cross slide.

I know I'm switching between the two ideas here, (nuts a tee bolts) but I want to see which is the better option. £50 For a full clamping set or make them custom to me For less than a couple of quid and adjust to suit.

 

[ShopShoe]

Sorry, I missed or forgot the lathe-only part of the request. However, there is a point in the video where tapping the T-nut to prevent running the bolt or stud in too deep is discussed.

Norm, I always appreciate your input, especially when you focus on making do with what you've got. Sometimes we forget that there are many ways to do everything.

I do want to learn what JCsteam does, as I like to see people move forward at all skill levels. (And Norm, I am patiently waiting for you to get your shed and your MySieg up and running.)

Regards to all,

--ShopShoe

 

[abby]

Couldn't be bothered to read most of this but if you are making T-bolts and have a good heat source (oxy acetylene is perfect) I cut my bar to length and then holding the piece in my vice I heat the last half inch or so until it is as hot as I can get it them whack it with a hammer ............this is called up-setting , especially if you hit your hand !
A little practice and it is easy to forge enough of the bar to turn the T and file away the surplus.
Dan.

 

[goldstar31]

Unfortunately, neither JCS nor I have Oxy. There are problems in not only cost but in house insurance. Long time since I heard 'up-setting' and 'etteling' and using a Bob and Aunty. I presume that I was the little boy who being a virgin was delegated to urinate in the quenching water. Can one still buy fustians and brass two foot folding rules beloved of country blacksmiths and farriers?

Do they still generate their own acetylene from calcium carbide. We used to collect unused bits, stick them in lemonade bottles , urinate and play cork guns. One , the village idiot, tried it on a screw top bottle.

Just thought or so

Norm

 

[Niels Abildgaard]

Hi JC
The “Top Hat” style Bazmak mentioned using round stock is the fastest and easiest way to make T nuts without a mill. I’ve made dozens of these for on my ML7. Just tap the hole, machine down the Top Hat to fit the depth and width to your slot, part it off, file the flats and repeat.

My last versions are easier yet.
But I have a very good parting off system.

 

[bazmak]

Thats the way i made them before i got the mill Niels
Now i mill as a length of T section drill and tap and cut
to length etc. If you worry about the contact area and breaking the
T slot then i make them longer.If it will fit then you can have one long one with a no of tapped holes.Personally i dont think there is much risk
with low powered chinese bench lathes and the home workshop
Heavy industry yes HT everything etc etc