solid fuel tablets

[firebird]

Hi

I have been messing about with spirit burners for a while now and have made some improvements on the simple wick design (see my other posts). A mate said have you tried those solid fuel tablets that the mamod engines use. Well, no I haven't. So a quick search on e-bay and a slip of my finger on the buy now button saw me with a box of tablets 2 days later. Keen to give it a go I chucked one in a tin tray and lit it. It burned for 10 minutes. They are safer than liquid obviously but are they as good??? Would putting 5 or 6 in a tray be enough to get my 3 inch boiler going??? Anybody had any experience with these??

Cheers

Rich

 

[bentprop]

I haven't used 'em myself,Rich,but I read somewhere that they burn hot but very short.Out of your 10 min.,only 2 min. or so would be really generating enough heat.
I'm assuming the only reason they work ok on mamod and the like,is that they use a much smaller boiler,and the engines require a lot less steam.
On the other hand,they are reasonably safe for kids to play about with.
I've often though about firelighters,broken into small pieces.Likely to have the same sort of result.Look forward to your findings.
I'm still faffing about with trying to make an lpg setup.

 

[firebird]

H Bentprop

Fire lighters, now theres an interesting thought. Ive never had a mamod or similar so haven't used the solid tablets before. Do they have to sit on a gauze in a tray, ie have air underneath or just sit on the bottom??

Cheers

Rich

 

[Twmaster]

I've used this stuff. The Mamod and Jensen engines use this for fuel. Most of the Jensens use two tablets at a time. The fuel is called 'Esbit'.

I no longer have my Jensen. I seem to recall the boiler is about 2" in diameter and about 6" long. Makes more than enough steam to run the stock wobbler quite ferociously.

 

[doubletop]

I had always thought that firelighters were a grown up version of the solid fuel blocks for a Mamod etc. They also used to be called "meta blocks". Any of you ex military types out there will no doubt have vivid memories of trying to heat up compo rations in a howling gale on the meta block stoves that came with the rations.

Pete

 

[bentprop]

Since I had to open my big mouth,I thought I'd better do some more investigating ;D

A packet of fire lighters was bought:

The treasure within:

Just out of idle curiosity,I split one to see what it's made off.It looks like recycled cardboard :-\.Presumably impregnated with something,but I couldn't smell any spirits.

First I lit a complete brick.It lit easily,but the flame is quite yellow.I assume therefore that it doesn't burn all that hot:



Then i broke it up a bit,and though the flame is a bit more spread out,it doesn't look any hotter:



Sorry the video is not so hot,I only have a still camera with 2mp video mode.
I'm doubtful that these are much use as fuel for,say,a 3" boiler.When I put a piece of steel over the flame to see if it would make any difference,it almost went out.It seems to need a lot of air to keep it going,and I don't think it burns hot enough to heat that size boiler.
Sorry,Rich,keep looking for a better solution.

 

[doubletop]

These budget firelighters and look like fibre board soaked in something.

See here http://zenstoves.net/SolidFuelBurner.htm for the various types of solid fuel stoves Hexamine, Trioxane and metaformaldehyde. The Zip firelighters I recall were like these but I've no idea what they were made of.

See that Coleman make the blocks http://www.coleman.com/coleman/colemancom/detail.asp?product_id=2000003556&categoryid=2005&brand=

So there you go Rich; plenty to choose from

Pete

 

[firebird]

Thanks Mike, Pete and Hans.

I'll look into the camping stove tablets.

cheers

Rich

 

[mklotz]

Another option is Sterno. I don't know if it's available outside the USA, but it's a jellied flammable solid in a metal can and is used, among other uses, to heat chafing dishes in cafeteria style serving lines.

It burns hot and clean and I've used it to fuel my small vertical PMR boiler. Buy the cheaper large-size cans and use a spatula to transfer the flammable 'goop' to a smaller container that will fit in the firebox.

It's ideal for moving models (e.g., the steam roller I'm building) because there's no risk of spilling flammable fuel if the model is jostled.

 

[tel]

I've never seen that over here, but it could probably be made the way .. mmmm .... a certain other product is done - ie dissolve powdered pure soap into methylated spirits unti it reaches a jelly like consistency.

 

[rickharris]

You can get jellied fuel in the UK it is sold for chimney free fires http://www.candelainteriors.com/diy_gel_fireplace

How to make it http://www.ehow.co.uk/how_6172804_make-alcohol-based-gel-fuel.html

Note I haven't personally tried this although I have see the fires.

 

[bentprop]

Looks like being a cheapskate didn't pan out too well :big:.
Obviously the stuff I got was recycled compressed wood,cardboard or whatever.
Now that I,ve thought about it,if it's going to boil a pan of water,it'll heat a boiler,and the brown stuff isn't really stove heating material.
Geez,DT,,making some of that stuff could be tricky,if not downright dangerous.I wouldn't risk my health to save a couple of dollars,pounds,WHY.
So,Rick,your best bet is the proper alcohol/spirits impregnated stuff.If it says"environmentally friendly",forget it ;D

 

[doubletop]

Bentprop

No chemistry required just a trip to the local store. If you want zip firelighters just go here in the UK

Asda Walmart , Bestway Cash & Carry , Booker Ltd , Booths , Budgens Stores Ltd , Co-op Group Ltd , Costcutter Stores , Londis Holdings Ltd , Makro Self-Service , Nisa Stores , Ocado Ltd , Somerfield Stores Ltd , Supermarkets PLC , Tesco Stores Ltd (H/Hold) , Waitrose Ltd , WM Morrison , Wilkinson

Or here in the US

BIGs Stores , Britol Farms, Circle K, Gelson's, Kehe Distributor services, Saar's, Shop Rite, Unified Seattle, URM Spokane, Winn Dixie.

Otherwise try the camping store

 

[firebird]

Hi

Some very good ideas there. The latest spirit burner I built (see other topic) works really well and is the best so far. However after lighting it when I try to move it into the boilers fire box if its not held dead level spirit will run out of one of the jets which results in quite a spectacular burst of flame. The solid fuel seems like a safer option. Eventually I will move over to gas fired but I haven't got that far yet. I'll pursue this a little further and see if it is suitable.

Cheers

Rich

 

[Noitoen]

The other day, I was servicing a little generator with a Briggs & Straton like carburator, mounted directly on the fuel tank and it was filled up with spongy like absorbing material. I suppose it's to keep the fuel moving around.

 

[firebird]

Hi

I just happened to be passing the hardware shop this morning so went in and bought some fire lighters.



I cut 2 bits off and placed them in a tin tray along side a mamod tablet (the one on the right)



I lit the mamod one first followed by the 2 bits of firelighter. As you can see the firelighter is way too smokey for use in a steam engine.



After about 5 minutes the fire lighters have just about had it but the mamod is still going well.



At about 7 minutes.



The fire lighters were only £0.95 so worth the outlay to see what happened. Whether a more expensive well known brand would be better I don't know. I'll get some next week.

Cheers

Rich

 

[doubletop]

Rich, Stew, Fred, Bill ???

As always good controlled testing from you. "New formula" rings alarm bells like "cheap and cheerful". How about trying some ZIP firelighters against Mamod ? We all remember ZIP from way back.

Or join in the ideal gas burner search

Pete

 

[firebird]

Hi Paddy Paul Phil Pete :big: :big: :big:

Yes Zip is what we need.

Cheers

Rich

 

[johnthomp]

i think i can help with this debate fellas with haveing owned a mamod engine when i was a kid i found esbit fireblocks to be abbout the cleanest burn and can make them last a lot longer if you stack them 2 at a time flat on top of each other with a crumb on top of that to ensure ease of lighting
i also found that buying a cheap folding camping stove from the local camping store would get me 20 blocks for a quid and the blocks last a hell of a lot longer i guess they are just the same as esbit blocks but a lot stronger thinking about it they wouldnt be such a good camping stove if they cant boil a kettle
and also i tried useing the zip firelighters wich choke the hell out of the firebox with black soot and is a bastard to clean out and we all know if its leaft in there it seriously reduces the efficieny of the boiler due to the carbon layer build up being somewhat fireproof and heat insulating
another place i used to get the esbit style blocks is the army surplus store 100 blocks for £3 aswell as a few other bits and bobs such as large brass tank ammunition shells to make boilers out of my mamod ran and looked cool as **** with that boiler on it evry kid in the neighbourhood wanted it
but if anyone out there is interested in this look on youtube for soda can stove
these buggers burn real hot for roughly 1 hour and require about 50ml of premium grade paraffin would be a great afternoon project on the back burner so to speak

 

[bentprop]

Mmmm,looks like you got more or less the same results,Rich.The firelighters burn hot but short.
Have you tried the esbit or mamod tabs under your boiler?If that works well,I might try that myself.