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B

Bogstandard

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I am going to refer to this post

http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?topic=1479.0


This is exactly what we need in our hobby today, people that are willing to learn our art, YOUNGSTERS especially, but where does the definition of youngster end?

If each one of us engine producers could manage to teach just one person, whether young or old, a few of our skills, then soon we would have a thriving model engine community.

Young Shane here is to be congratulated in making the effort to get away from the easy, come easy go culture of today. Turning his hand to MAKING something, a thing almost forgotten in the younger generation.

I was talking to some of the older guys at a steam rally last year, and they were saying that it is very difficult to recruit young engine makers outside of the immediate family, they just have no insight into how things work and how they are made, all that interests them is if they can afford to buy a finished article.

I went another way, and used the technology available to teach someone.
The person I taught is now a member of this site, and everthing came about by chance, by him wanting to build a model steam boat. To cut a long story short, he got interested in what I was doing (remember this was all done by email), he already had a small chinese lathe, but not much success with it, and we attempted, by me making bits, and sending them by post to see if we could turn his small bench drill into a miller (another long story) but he finally ended up with a small miller, on my recommendations. He has now gone from strength to strength, at one time it was two or three times a day by email, he was asking me how he should do something, and I was giving him the answers as to how I would do it. He asked when he needed new tooling, and I gave him advice on that, so that even without it, he should be able to do it manually, just that the tooling made life a lot easier and more accurate. No frivolous purchases, just what was needed when it was required.
Now it is just the odd email when he gets really stuck. The feeling I get when he tells me he has had success cannot be described, it is like me rediscovering how I did things many years ago, and it brings back the joy that I felt then.
I think he is building his fifth engine now, a v-twin, poppet valve, scaled up to twice the size, and he is getting on great, and now, as far as I am concerned is well on the way to becoming a model producer in his own right.
I have only ever spoken to him once on the phone, many moons ago, and have never met him, but hopefully sometime this year I will. He is older than myself, but that makes no difference, maybe he can pass a little bit on. He now admits to having a passion for making things out of metal, with all the joys and frustrations that that entails.
Without counting back all the hundreds of emails that have been sent between us, it must be about two or three years since we started this jouney together. To hopefully, not the final conclusion, but to a friendship built up using latest technology, to pass over old styled information that has benefitted us both.

So what this message is all about, we don't have to do it in the same workshop, we have the means nowadays to pass information on to anyone that requires it, to get them to a stage where they can say they are enjoying what they are doing.

The basics and getting started are the hard parts, once people have that information, they can usually sort out the difficult bits by themselves, or with maybe a little extra help from ourselves.

Pretty soon I can see me looking for another internet 'apprentice'.

John

 
Well this is the 'old tree' - Bogstandard's ageing apprentice ! I have to say that I consider myself to be incredibly fortunate in having met Bogstandard through a chance exchange of emails when I was making my first tentative step into the world of steam powered model boats.

Very rarely does a day pass when we don't exchange emails and often, when I am battling with a new technique, it can be several exchanges a day. John’s patience, readiness to help and guide me has successfully launched me into a new and totally absorbing hobby. With John’s help I have now completed a small number of engines and enjoyed the satisfaction of seeing each engine eventually spring into life. I did at one early stage consider attending a model engineering course and whilst that may have been useful I don’t think it could have matched the depth and focus of the ‘one to one’ training I have received from ‘my friend on the internet’. I now have a small but reasonably equipped workshop with mini-lathe, mill and bandsaw. I am progressively building up my tooling again with John’s expert guidance.

It also pleases me that John has derived some pleasure in my progress. If only the journey that John and I are enjoying could be repeated amongst others this would be a tremendous boost to the whole model engineering arena.

JohnS
 
Thank you John,
I was hoping you wouldn't read this.
The old wood refers to myself, you are the new reborn wood.

John
 
Birk Petersen is my old guy mentor. I feel pretty lucky to have met him. I have always had an interest in this hobby, I met Birk and the interest exploded. Now I think I might have a problem. He has inspired me to the point that I want to build everything. I know little or nothing now, but learning from Birk and you folks on this forum, I think I could learn to do it all. Thanks.
 
Excellent post John!

It made me think of my own first true mentor.
I was an 18 year old who walked into a production machine shop looking for a job
with NO machining experience what so ever.

He was a 62 year old alcoholic who had been there for 45 years. He had no patience
for anyone! If you pi$$ed him off, he'd swing a wrench at you. Sometimes the wrench
would slip out of his hand... I could see his experience and knew he was the one that
I could learn from the most. Naturally he'd lose his cool with me. I'd ask him something
and he'd reply, "My memory is about as long as my D%@K on a GOOD day! You figure it out!"
And then, a few minutes later he'd come over to make it very clear that I was not doing it
in the best possible manner.

Two things were achieved from our working together.
#1 I learned from 45 years worth of machining skills in 2 years.
#2 I NEVER wanted to end up being like that CRANKY OLD BUZZARD!

Well there is a #3, I honestly miss that CRANKY OLD BUZZARD......... :(
I'm sure that where ever he is today, he's giving SOMEBODY hell for being stupid!

Rick
 
Big Big Sigh

from the point of view of UK schools I am sure there are many equipped to make "our kind" of products. Millions has been spent on CNC equipment over the past 10 years as well as basic engineering tools - BUT - Our upstanding government in their wisdom chooses to set a curriculum that more or less excluded physical skills and replaces it with short paper based tasks that "more students will pass" .

Almost every student I get who sees me operating the lath comes to watch, they all take an interest in what I am making although only a handful ever try and even fewer have the patience to be accurate enough (CNC helps there)

YET we don't teach it as part of the curriculum. Many teachers are concerned about Health and Safety and use of the lathe and associated machines in a classroom with perhaps 30 unruly students who demand eye in the back of your head.

Many teachers, (dare I say younger ones), don't have the skills. Technology has expanded to be like a river of knowledge, but today it is a mile wide but only an inch deep!

Students are required to be familiar with, Ferrous and non-ferrous metals, plastics, paper, Hard and soft woods and man made materials. By law they must learn about food or textiles. We have to do all this in 114 weeks at a rate of about 1 or 2 hours a week. In fact we are under pressure to crop a year off that and reduce the learning time to just 76 weeks (hours).

Mind Familiar only means they need to name a few metals and or plastics, Know a couple of typical uses and a bit about how to join them and passing is easy!. They still have to make something but as long as the paperwork is in place and the product is made and working they pass. there are no greater marks for a well made wooden candle holder than a fully working steam engine.

Sigh - Glad I will retire in just 72 weeks!

On the good side I have had students learn the skills and make working wobblers, I have a couple of parents who have inherited lathes and want to learn how to use them and a small group of students who are building a racing car (electric) - actually, a second car as we competed last year.

Engineering in the UK is not dead but by heavens, it's very poorly.

 
Ah the crusty old farts...

It seems like every shop had one, and if you were patient and kept your mouth shut, they had a wealth of information to pass along. None of them tolerated fools or "know it alls", and most of the new kids were scared to death of them. Now as I am starting my 15th year in my field, I find myself slipping into that mode as well. It's a whole lot more rewarding to teach the one who genuinely want to learn, then the smart alecs who have read about it in the books. They still get the basics from a safety perspective, but they might not get all the tricks and tips...
 
Guy,

That is a common problem when a person finds a new world, he wants to see everything that it holds all in one day. The usual thing, running before walking.
My apprentice (sorry John) was just like that, wanted to do complicated things first, he listened to reason and did a couple of easy ones first, and benefitted more from the experience of getting it right, rather than doing a difficult one and getting it wrong. Skills and experience comes with time, and if you can find a good mentor this time is shortened dramatically. I still listen and learn from my own mentor, and so would he, if his were still with us.

Listen and learn, take notice, be eager, but not too much, and all of a sudden it will click into place, et voila! You will be up there with the rest of us.

Just remember, no one person will know everything (but there are always a few who think they do), and this is why we have a forum such as this, ask the question and hopefully someone should be able to help.

Rick 1.

Sounds a bit like myself over the last couple of years, the only problem is that I don't drink, I can get like that without it.

Rick 2.

Being from the UK myself and having my own grandson in our home permanently, I can see exactly where the education of our children is heading.
It wasn't too long ago that a person was respected for his skills and aptitude, and wherever he (or she) went, was recognised for it (bowler hats and white coats).
Unfortunately all I see nowadays are paper people, respected for their worthless diplomas, meaning they have no manual skills, and for their worship of money and material things, 'earned' thru exploitation of people with lesser diplomas. It will not improve.

A very big BUT now.

But at least us crusty old farts can change a bit of that, if we can just pass on what we know.

John

 
Being one of the younger guys I have to say that there are the ones of us out there that would love to have someone show us the ropes. I had my mentor (actually two)in maching when I started. I'm trying to learn a little about electronics now and Swede has helped alot but I still worry of being annoying.
Bogstandard, I was told to email you with my electronics questions but it is intimidating when you know that you know so little. I don't even know where to start with the questions. I have bought books but when questions arise your stuck.
I think the one on one interaction with a good mentor is more valuable than any formal education.

Point being,, there are people out there willing to absorb any information you old farts have. I hope to take in as much as I can. I am looking foward to being an old fart and hope to pass the torch on to someone in the future.

Tim.
 
I honestly believe this group is different from what has become the "normal"
hobby machinist's forums.

Sure we are proud of what we have been able to make after years of working
(playing) in this hobby. We love showing off what we've made!
There come a point where it becomes too easy.
When you reach that point it becomes boring, and you find yourself looking for a
more challenging build.

There is one thing better than completing that more complex engine.
It's seeing a first build posted by a new beginner.

That is the reason for this whole thing being here.

tattoomike68 is my partner in the creation of this forum.
At the time it began he had never built a running engine.
When he posted the video of his own first engine coming to life
I'm sure my grin was a wide as his.

It's all about passing along what we know to anyone who is willing to
listen.

You can do it! We can help you to get there!!!

There IS one rule here.
When your first engine runs WE get to see it first!!!!!!!!

Then after that you can feel free to show it to your wife, kids, girlfriend or parents. ;)

Rick







 
Tim,

If anyone is worth their salt, they should never turn away a question if it is within that persons power to answer, and if they can't answer it for any reason, they should be able to point you in the right direction to get your question answered.
It has been said on here many times before, there is no such thing as a silly or stupid question. If you don't know, ask. I am sure that there is enough knowledge on this forum to answer all machining problems, and a few more problems besides.

Rick,

This was the main reason I started this post, just to show how much enjoyment can be obtained from giving information freely, it is not a feeling of power, one upmanship or any of those self gratifying feelings, it is just pure satisfaction that you are helping someone achieve their dreams. The only thing that comes near to it was in a former time in my life, when I would teach people how not to end up badly injured or worse, in rather undesireable circumstances, and as it was, I never lost anyone who was with me.

So, share your knowledge, be happy (if you can) while doing it, and enjoy. After a while it is like a drug and you can't help yourself.

John
 
i take offence to the term youngster

we prefer, punk

...and stop telling me to keep off the damn lawn!
 
tattooed_machinist said:
i take offence to the term youngster

we prefer, punk

...and stop telling me to keep off the damn lawn!

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tattooed that's the spirit us old buzzards are looking for!
Right now at we have a high school kid at our shop who attends regular classes
2 days a week and come to the shop for state sponsored training 3 days a week.
His confidence and attitude could be described as indifferent at best.
I'd preferr YOUR attitude!

Rick
 
What a great thread. In my 30+ years as a working machinist, I can think of a few old-timers that have taught me a lot. Some of them even turned into friends. I look at some younger guys now, and think, "I hope I can have some positive influence on this kid, as Jack had with me."
One fellow used to say, "Keep your eyes open and your mouth shut." Those words fit many places.

Don't give no lip!
Watch and learn.
Think about what you see.
The guys who have to TELL you how good they are, usually aren't.
I have learned things from younger guys too.
I learn ALOT from this group.

I welcome questions from my 'trainees' at work. "Why don't we..." sometimes they come up with an improvement. Of course, after about the fifth repetition, it gets from me : "Just do what I told you!"

Never too old to learn, Davyboy
 
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