Electric Locmotive...

[made-in-england]

Hello All,

Id Like to build an 0-6-0 in either 31/2 or 5" but a Battery electric.

The most obvious thing to start with is either the rob roy or simplex chassis...

The rob roy appeals more as it would be smaller and more managable to work on I think for myself and my limited facilities..

Somone on ebay advertised something similar to this but with a Windscreen Wiper motor drive... Can anyone give me an idea how this is achieveable??

I look forward to your replys

Will Higgs

 

[NickG]

Hi Will,

I am in the process of making a very simple 7 1/4" gauge electric powered loco. By the sounds of what you want, you probably won't be that interested my simple construction, but the drive mecanism you might be - I saw it at Harrogate Model Engineering Exhibition and after talking to the guys on one of the Electric loco stalls I decided to go for gears and axle hung motors. I bought the motors from ebay, they are electric scooter type motors and hopefully a bit higher torque than the usual fan motors or windscreen wiper motors. I also bought the controller from ebay as I am not familiar with the electronics, whether it will work is a different matter - not got that far yet. If it doesn't, there are people in my club that have made them from scratch so they'll be able to help.

I started a build log on here but it generated so little interest I deleted it and continue it over on madmodder. Here is the link, hope this helps.
http://madmodder.net/index.php?topic=3595.15

If you scroll down to the bottom of the page there are some pics of the drive and more of it assembled on the third page.

Nick

 

[made-in-england]

Hello Nick

Thanks very much for that link, it is most helpfull...

I thought about windscreen wiper motors because they are small, and allready have a gear box on them so you replace the wiper with a chain sprocket.

There was also insperation from the recent ebay auction wich was a rob roy chassis with a windscreen wiper motor, I would like to contact the seller to ask some questions but sadly have lost the auction that ended last week so cannot contact him.

I Am also interested to hear what people think about the use of windscreen wiper motors? I know its not the best system and probably not advisable but this is the cheapest way I can see it and as a student cost plays a major facotor as does size and the machine tools and space I have availible to me.


Many thanks

Will

 

[NickG]

Will, when I bought the bits for mine I had forgotten about the use of windscreen wiper motors. I had seen people use car fan heater motors in the past but they are not as good because they are lower torque. A couple of issues I did think of with windscreen wiper motors was firstly that the gearing is too low - it might be too slow - depends on wheel diameters etc of course. The other thing is, if it's a worm and wheel in the gearbox, it might not coast, may just lock the wheels when you switch the power off. Not a huge problem though as you could just slow down gently with the controller.

A lot of people do use chain and sprocket or toothed belts. When I saw the gears at the show I thought they were a bit touch and go - I wasn't sure whether there was going to be room for the axles when I bought the motors but there was just enough. The good thing about hanging the motors on the axles is the mesh remains constant, I could put suspension on the whole assembly and it doesn't matter - the drive will still be ok.

Somewhere in my post I think on madmodder forum, Stew had a link to a site where somebody had used windscreen wiper motors to good effect. I can't remember how much my motors cost, I think about £12 each, they are 100w and the 30A controller was about £20.

Good luck

Nick

 

[made-in-england]

Many Thanks Nick

I did find the post you where talking about.. Very interesting stuff the guy did.

I was thinking something similar but with a chain drive... (something like over 80% effective drive ??? )

I have found pictures of what id like to achive, station road steam had something in some time ago.. which I hope are attached.

One problem with 31/2 is lack of space. I fear that small powerfull motors would be very expensive..

I think im going to go at it with my agricultural way of doing things (if in dowt give it a clowt!) and see what I can do... I cant loose anything.. only gain the experience... ( he whispers hopefully to himself!!)

 

[made-in-england]

Found this snippet of info online this morning.. Not sure what motor or wiper it is from but it was a standard part for a car I know that.

12 volts, on high speed, the motor has 13.5 pound-feet and on low speed, has 17.5 pound-feet of torque.

 

[NickG]

Will,

That picture is interesting.

Mine is pretty agricultural too! Am making it up as I go along. I've even got my mig welder out for this project - which I'm pretty rubbish with but it's sort of stuck the metal together (I think!).

Yeah it would be difficult to squeeze something between a 3 1/2" frame, I originally planned to do mine as a 5" gauge as our portable track is 5" but it was a bit touch and go squeezing my motors in the way I wanted to do it - so I elected to save myself any headaches working stuff out and go for 7 1/4"!

Wiper motors do give high torque due to the gearing, the only fear I had was that you might actually need to gear it up as the shaft won't spin fast enough to give a decent speed. With mine, I thought I was going to have the opposite problem - the motors spin at something like 2800rpm and my gear ratio isn't massive, something like 1:3 but because I've kept my wheels relatively small it should work out around a theoretical max of 6mph if my calcs are correct! I think that's pretty slow, any slower would possibly feel too slow. The small wheels should increase the pulling power but make it more likely to slip. As you say, we can't lose anything - well I will, probably about 70 squid or so but at least I'll have tried!

Nick

 

[made-in-england]

I completley agree with you! The way I look at it is.. if all else fails I will have a rob roy chassis I can either strip down and rebuild as a propper rob roy or sell on... Ive found somone who has done it with wiper motors on 21/2!

Speed dosnt really concern me at this stage.. id just like to build a working locomotive If its slow theory says it will pull... but hey if its too slow ill just have to pick the days I run it at the track!

Thanks for your kind words and advice

Off to buy parts now :-\

Will

 

[firebird]

Hi Will

This is an electric truck I built for my kids about 15 years ago. Its powered by a ford escort radiator fan motor.

This shows the motor. It was geared down with bits of lawn mower and bike chains etc.

I once caught 3 of the little tykes on it, my daughter and her mate on the truck and another in the trailer and it pulled them ok.

When I was first getting started in model engineering and money was tight I built myself this saw powered by a windscreen wiper motor. It served me well for quite a spell.

Cheers

Rich

 

[made-in-england]

Thats very interesting stuff rich. Thank you.

The more I look into it the more it seems its a viable way to do it..

Will

 

[made-in-england]

A change of plan!

Talking to a old member of the model engineers about my idea.. he has given me the "going electric" plans from the model engineer in a photocopied form.

The wheels are made from stock and the drive is achieved via chain and sproket..

He is happy to give me a atco mower motor to power it like the tram he built. (12V)

One question I have is springing... does the locomotive have to be sprung?

Will

 

[NickG]

Hmm,

I'm not sure on this either - I'm making mine rigid to start with, but that is why I axle hung the motors as I can very easily add springs if I need to and it doesn't affect my drive train. I think it would be better sprung to compensate for any track that isn't straight.

Nick

 

[made-in-england]

Hey All,

Just thought Id keep you all abreast with the development i am making.

I decided against 31/2" as this topic started and am copying the design of a Locomotive allready in the club for a very simple 5" Toby Tram.

I have ordered the barings, Made a start on the wheels, I need to make a Mandrel to add the flanges, and the axels will arrive in the week sometime..

I still need to work out the gear ratio but I think I will do this by counting the exising locos sprokets and replicating the drive as exactly as I can.. If it works why try and re-invent the wheel.

Gears, motor and drive etc will all happen after xmas I expect. Ive also bought a part built julliet to get on with so plenty to keep me busy.

Soon as I have something worthwhile to show I will post some pictures.

Thanks

Will

 

[Stan]

If you want to get higher power windshield wiper motors, get them of a large truck that pushes 22" or 24" wiper blades.

 

[made-in-england]

I have been given a large 12V motor from somone at the model club so the wipers have been abandoned

 

[made-in-england]

Another question and a bit of an update....

I started to make my own wheels but realised the time it was taking id loose heart in the project pretty fast so they have been put aside whilst I am using compass house ones.

Something I wanted to know was, im using a chain drive to the layshaft then from the layshaft to the axel then again chain between the two... Does it matter if the chains are too slack?

Will