Cutting oak

[deverett]

OK so its not metal working, but it is model making.

I need to cut some oak 5" long by 2-1/4" high as the base of an engine I am making. The joints will be butt jointed (as per original) and the end grain will show. The box when it is finished will be clear coated.

How do I cut the end grain without it splitting?

I have only a limited supply and it is already cut to the correct height.

Dave
The Emerald Isle

 

[Metal Butcher]

OK so its not metal working, but it is model making.

I need to cut some oak 5" long by 2-1/4" high as the base of an engine I am making. The joints will be butt jointed (as per original) and the end grain will show. The box when it is finished will be clear coated.

How do I cut the end grain without it splitting?

I have only a limited supply and it is already cut to the correct height.

Dave
The Emerald Isle

Back it up with a sacrificial piece of wood. I use this method to prevent "tear-out" when I router bases.

Here's another method.
http://www.taunton.com/finehomebuil...with-chuck-minimize-circular-saw-tearout.aspx

A fine tooth thin kerf carbide blade will also help.

-MB

 

[Kermit]

Use thick masking tape along the lines on both sides of the wood.
Burnish it down with a straight edge so it is well adhered.
A blade with at least 40 teeth or more helps as well.

Good luck,
Kermit

Edit 2 1/4" is rather thick for most saws, table saw technique would be to saw half way through and flip over, eliminating cut through and the tearing that usually happens on the bottom when making a single cut. A circular handsaw and some clamped on guides will work this way as well.

 

[rickharris]

OK so its not metal working, but it is model making.

I need to cut some oak 5" long by 2-1/4" high as the base of an engine I am making. The joints will be butt jointed (as per original) and the end grain will show. The box when it is finished will be clear coated.

How do I cut the end grain without it splitting?

I have only a limited supply and it is already cut to the correct height.

Dave
The Emerald Isle

As said a fine tooth saw - personally I would sand down end grain with a belt sander or similiar if you have little wood to play with. The old methods do allow planing but need a fairly good plaining action to make it work - that only comes with practice and you may not have that much wood.

Needless to say a razor sharp blade in the plane is also a necessity. Never plane right across the end - always work fro the ends to the middle this will much reduce the chance of splitting. My router makes a fairly good job of end grain with a sharp cutter.

 

[spuddevans]

OK so its not metal working, but it is model making.

I need to cut some oak 5" long by 2-1/4" high as the base of an engine I am making. The joints will be butt jointed (as per original) and the end grain will show. The box when it is finished will be clear coated.

How do I cut the end grain without it splitting?

I have only a limited supply and it is already cut to the correct height.

Dave
The Emerald Isle

How are you going to cut it?

It might help to score with a sharp knife all the way around the piece, using an engineers square ( but 1st of all wiping all the oil off it :big: :big: ) as a guide. This will sever the top-most fibres and will help prevent the tearout that can occur.

If you are sawing this by hand, then score around a few times to get some extra depth with the knife.

The advice everyone else said is really great, this is all I could add.

Tim

 

[itowbig]

i have used a fiber blade before. it makes a lot of smoke and it burns the end where the cut was made but can be sanded off. it will not split or fray the wood at all. must take hardy but steady cuts and i find that like drilling peck sawing with hardy pressure works and helps keep the smoke to a min. jus remember at the end or close to the end take it easy on the cut.

 

[Metal Butcher]

Here's another link worth reading.

http://www.dekalbsaw.com/sawtearout.html

-MB

 

[tmuir]

When I want a good finish on wood and I'm cutting by hand I use either a Ryoba Japanese Saw
http://www.traditionalwoodworker.com/product_info.php/cPath/37_532_573/products_id/3538
or a Kataba saw
http://www.traditionalwoodworker.com/product_info.php/cPath/37_532_574/products_id/3842

It gives a far superior finish than a traditional western saw but it takes a bit to get used to.
It cuts on the pull stroke not the push stroke.
The saw teeth or chisel shaped so slice the wood rather than rip it. The teeth also have less of an offset and a finer kerf. If used properly no clean up it required on a visable cut.
I also agree that either masking tape or a sacrificial bit of wood underneath helps stop tear out.

 

[deverett]

Thanks for all the suggestions.

Sawing did not present the problem, it was when I went to (hand) plane the end that the corners split. Because the end is only 2-1/4" long, I was unable to plane a straight edge starting from each end.

I think I will try a combination of several suggestions: Mark the cut line with a knife and then if I can find a way of backing up the end (effectively making the piece wider than the 2-/4"), I hope to get success. Otherwise, I'll try binding the cut line with masking tape.

I will have one piece - the ruined one - to pratice on!

Dave
The Emerald Isle

 

[AlanHaisley]

Thanks for all the suggestions.

Sawing did not present the problem, it was when I went to (hand) plane the end that the corners split.

Because the end is only 2-1/4" long, I was unable to plane a straight edge starting from each end.

I think I will try a combination of several suggestions: Mark the cut line with a knife and then if I can find a way of backing up the end (effectively making the piece wider than the 2-/4"), I hope to get success.

Otherwise, I'll try binding the cut line with masking tape.

I will have one piece - the ruined one - to pratice on!

Dave

The Emerald Isle

Dave,

It would help to know what tools you have for woodworking. In my case, since I own a router, I would use a router bit with a straightedge or fixture to hold the piece and serve as a guide for the router. I also would use a backer block at the corner where the cut will end.

Another possibility, if the boards are not too thick, is to use a slitting saw in the mill. Clean the saw and arbor (Also the vise or other holding aids) with mineral spirits or alcohol before using to keep from getting oil on the wood. Use a medium speed to avoid burning the wood or anealing the saw.

Generally you can't use a router bit or endmill on wood in a milling maching because you can't get the speed up high enough. Routers generally spin well over 10000 RPM. You might have luck with an endmill spinning as fast as possible though. In that case you will want to score the cutline on the surface to avoid tearout.

Any of these methods can produce an edge better than can be achieved by the best hand planer.

Alan

 

[JackF]

Hi Dave,
I'm a novice at wood working as well as metal working but why not miter the joint so the end grain doesn't show. Some care would still be needed to keep from tearing but tearing might be easier to hide.

Jack.

 

[deverett]

Alan

My wood working tools are rudimentary - a couple of hand saws of different pitch, a hand plane and a few chisels + a 1/3 sheet sanding machine. I have a B & D Workmate to hold the job steady.

I never thought of using a slitting saw, but that might be a good idea, used in conjunction with some of the other ideas (using a knife to cut the cut line and backing up the end). The wood is about 3/8" thick, so quite within the capabilities of my larger saws. It will be easy to back up the wood with a bit of scrap. I've got plenty of that!

Jack

As I said in my forst post, the original had the end grain exposed in simple butt joints, hence the question. Mitre joints would still not get over the problem of tearing the last bit out as the top/bottom would still be exposed.

Dave
The Emerald Isle

 

[gilessim]

Dave, the old way to do what you need ,was to use what's called a shooting board
http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/Community/QADetail.aspx?id=28150
scribing round with a stanley knife helps a lot but after cutting as well as you can with what you've got, your plane needs to be razor sharp BTW, if you glue strips of formica with evo-stick, onto the faces of the shooting board, you can also use different grades of sandpaper on a nice square block and get a perfect finish, hope this helps, it's really good practice anyway to try to get good results with very few tools until you can afford other equipment!

I did some work in Morocco a while ago alongside a local carpenter who was fitting skirting boards, door frames etc., he just had one saw, a couple of chisels and a plane, all super sharp and I was really impressed at how accurate he was!, so it just goes to show we're spoilt by the knowledge that we could have nice new machines to get good results!

Giles

 

[tomol409]

Stanley recommends adjusting the frog forward and reducing the throat width. This is not generally done, but I saw a Stanley rep plane piece of wood from the root of a tree with the grain going in every direction, and the surface was silky smooth. Tomol.

 

[pmercer]

And remember to take deep breaths through your nose. The smell of cut Oak is amazing. (try not to breathe in the dust though)

 

[deverett]

Well, thanks to all the helpful suggestions in the recent past, I have managed to finish cutting the oak to make the base of a scale hit 'n' miss engine I am attempting to build from castings.

In the end I decided to use gilesim idea of a shooting board to cut the end grain. The reason being is that it loked the simplest idea, and I like simnple ideas. I knocked up a temporary shooting board using a bit of melamine faced board for the plane to slide on and I had an offcut of 1-1/2" softwood that had a straight edge. For the stop, I found a piece of hardwood with a straight edge and end. It was all held together onto my B & D Workmate with some G clamps.

The second picture shows how the base for the engine turned out.

There is just two coats of polish on the wood and it is coming up quite well. Old country recipe for the polish:
1 part pure turpentine
1 part raw linseed oil
1 part white vinegar
1/4 part methylated spirits (purple coloured stuff)

The polish soaks in and dries almost instantly and 'madam' uses it for all her wood furniture.

Dave
The Emerald Isle

 

[gilessim]

Looks great Dave!, glad you liked the shooting board idea, sometimes the old ones are the best, I like your improvised setup, as long as the g-clamps are done up $**t tight you should be ok.

BTW, we used to take the purple colour out of the meths by pouring it through a coffee filter, I don't know if this still works but with light woods like Sycamore and Ash ,with french polishing, you could sometimes still see the colour and it was a real PITA!

Giles