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Jack

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Can a simple cam be cut on a lathe? I'm talking about a small .712 diameter on the high part and .562 diameter on the small part. Hard to describe but I think everybody knows what I'm talking about, Can it be cut on a lathe? Could someone explain the process or is it just so complicated that it has to be done on a CNC mill. There must be a old time way to do this. Can anyone help me? :(
 
Hi Jack,
Turning a cam lobe can be done on a lathe, but would require a fairly complex method and fixture to do it. I used to do multi lobe cams for IC engines.
Do you have a rotary table? (don't let Marv see this post)
If you have it is fairly easy.
Let us know.

John
 
Bogstandard said:
Hi Jack,
Turning a cam lobe can be done on a lathe, but would require a fairly complex method and fixture to do it. I used to do multi lobe cams for IC engines.
Do you have a rotary table? (don't let Marv see this post)
If you have it is fairly easy.
Let us know.

John

Thought you'd sneek that one by, eh, John?

Just to prove that I'm a stand-up guy, I'll have to say that John is dead right on this one. A rotary table is definitely the tool of choice for this job.

An RT is pretty much essential if you're going to be building models of any sort. However, for one-off type things, you can approximate curved contours by calculating coordinates along the curve and using a mill - see my ROUNDER program for an example.
It's tedious, although a computer program or programmable calculator eases the job - and leaves a cusped finish that requires handwork to get a smooth profile.

I've done cams via this HAM (Human Assisted Machining) method before I got an RT and the results were very satisfactory. Nevertheless, if the cam profile is critical to the engine operation, an RT is still the preferred tool to use.
 
Jack,
I have just had a look at the cam, dead easy if you don't mind a little bit of filing. There are no complicated lobe shapes, just a rise face to the top of the lobe and down again the other side.
I am a bit busy at the moment, but if you can wait I will be free again in a couple of hours, and if no-one has come up with a solution by then I will do a little description of how I would do it.
You will need if possible, either some wood or lead to jam into the hole you have already bored, to find the centre of the bar, some marking blue or a permanent marker, a vee block if possible, an engineers square, either a height gauge or scribing block, a vernier, preferably digital (if you don't have a height gauge). What you are going to do is mark up the cam shape onto the end of the bar so you can file the side faces after machining down close to the layout lines.
If no-one else kicks in just let me know what you haven't got and I will try to think of a way around it.
BTW this will be so easy you will kick yourself for not thinking of it. Files were made before milling machines.
Don't worry about Marv, just jovial banter. He can better me every time because he knows a lot more and has a better command of the English language, but one day.......

John
 
Thanks in advance for the help.
I have the following:

Height gauge
vee blocks
dykem layout fluid
prussion blue
scribe
big and little squares
files
and just about anything else that a tool & die maker used, inherited it all from my father in law including a fancy GERSTNER tool box to store it in.

What I don't have is experience, remember I was a printer for 40 years, OH! "Graphics Engineer/Lithographer" now that I'm retired I am a professional chip maker and producer of little round things after starting with big round things.
 
Right Jack,
I am winging this, at 3.45am, hope the timing on the post doesn't give up before I've finished.
Recycle what you have already done, we will start from scratch, it will be a lot simpler. What you need to do is turn down your MS bar to 0.002" larger than it says, this is to allow for filing and polishing. This will allow you to make a cam that works.
1 start off with a bar 2" long. Turn down for a length of 1" to 0.714". Using a small centre drill put a small 'dimple' on the end to allow you to use spring dividers for layout, and to allow for pickup for the centre after finishing laying out.

2 Blue up, and mark a pair of lines thru the centre at 90 deg to each other.

3 Scribe a circle of about 0.564 dia. (this is only for use as a guide for cutting the lift faces).

4 Set one of the lines horizontal, and using your height gauge scribe a line parallel to the horizontal one 0.128" above it, rotate thru 180 deg and repeat.

5 Scribe a line at a tangent from the circle to where the parallel lines hit the edge of the outside OD. You should end up with what is shown in rough sketch.

cam1.jpg


6 Put it back in the lathe and finish the centre bore (being careful not to remove your layout).

7 Put blank into RT (put a bit of screwed up paper down into the chuck to stop you 'losing' the piece downwards) with your turned to diameter bit about 1/16" above the jaws and centre the job under the cutter chuck. Set RT to zero, set x & y handles to zero.

8 Put a fine point in your milling chuck and slacken off the RT chuck jaws and hand rotate your piece until you can move the y axis of the table back and forth and the point follows the centre line of the cam.

cam2.jpg


9 Recentre the the job under your cutter chuck, recheck your x & y are still at zero.

10 All your cutting will be 'conventional', NO CLIMB MILLING. So cut, rewind, put on another cut, and so on. NO CUTTING BOTH WAYS.

11 You are going to offset the RT to your right using the x axis handles by half of the cutter diameter plus half of the cam diameter. I would suggest something like a 1/4" cutter. So 0.125" (half cutter) plus 0.282" (half cam) = 0.407" (remember the clean up oversize of 0.002"). You are NOT going to be moving the x axis at all during the subsequent operations, so this can be fully locked up.

You should be looking at something like this.

cam3.jpg


12 Lock your miller table up and put a downwards cut on of about 0.010", and rotate the RT clockwise until it reaches 180 DEG, rewind to zero, put another cut on and repeat until you get a rythm going of depth of cut and and rotation speed, until you get to about 1" deep (or less if your cutter is shorter).

13 Lift up the cutter, slacken off your y table lock and wind the table towards you about 1/2". Turn the RT counter clockwise by a couple of degrees, wind forwards on the y until the cutter is over the blank and gently come down and just touch on and see where you are at. What you are looking to do is bring the line you marked to the edge parallel to the y cut of the miller by rotating the RT, it is a bit finicky. Eventually by rotating the RT you will get the cutter following the side lift line. See sketch. In fact it is the point where the line hits the outer edge that you need to aim for, the scribed line is just a marker.

cam4.jpg


14 Once you have it spot on the outer intersection mark, note the setting on the RT and lock up the RT. By using downwards cuts on the y axis you can now form the first lift face. Take it down to the same depth as the other cut.

15 Take off the cut, wind the y axis towards you by about 1/2".

16 Now these are guesstimate figures, don't use them, but use the figure for the RT that you noted down. Say you moved the RT counter clockwise to 350 deg. That means to get onto the line required an extra 10 deg 'off centre'.

17 Rotate the RT clockwise to 180 deg plus about 8 deg. This will give you a fiddle factor to get to the line. Cut the second lift side like the first. See sketch

cam5.jpg


18 You should now have the basic cam profile cut. You might need to blend the small diameter with the side lift faces at this point with a file, suck it and see.

19 Put the bit back into your lathe and using fairly fine emery, polish the outside of the cam, do not take off too much, this should also round off slightly the intersections of the flat lift sides and the roundy bits of the cam profile.

20 Part off the correct width, you should be able to get about 3 cams out of 1" depending on the width of your parting tool.

This has taken over 2.5 hours to compose, I would expect to make the cams in about half that time.
If I have made any obvious mistakes, let me know.
Cams for these small engines are not super critical, a few thou here or there makes really no difference, so what you are making should be perfectly OK.

John
 
THANK YOU John, that looks like I could even do it! I have the tools, I just don't have the ???(what ever it is that you have) to come up with the procedures to do things like this.
Thanks again Mel :D
 
Hi Mel,
I don't even know if it works yet, Jack must be trying it out now.

John
 
I plan on trying it tonight, I think that I understand all the steps involved, I plan on taking some pictures as I go. I haven't figured out how to hold the piece to the rotary table just yet. I only have a 4" RT but no chuck on it. It looks like it might be easier to just make the steel disk the right thickness, layout the drawing of the cam and just use a disk sander.
I certainly appreciate the time and effort that you put into trying to talk me through this delicate operation. After you done it several times it is probally easier to do than explain how to do it. Everything is easy if you know how.

I'll let you know how it comes out, Thanks Again for your help.
 
I was wondering how you was going to tie that puppy down to a RT with out a chuck. :shock: Great Idea. Why did you change from a round rod to a hex (allen wrench) ? I like your set up. Now that you have passed John's test, I wonder what he will want next :roll:
Mel
 
Jack I have to study photos like yours. The only lathe and milling machine I've seen operated is the ones I have, so with out people like you it would take me for ever to learn how.
Mel
 
Well done Jack,
Many thanks for showing us how it was done.
Soon you will be able to say you made ALL the bits.

John
 
Now that I have finished the little cam and after having a well earned night of rest, I went back and read the directions again and well.... Some english translation is needed, I live in fly over country and I am not fimiliar with:

You might need to blend the small diameter with the side lift faces at this point with a file, suck it and see.

Put screwed up paper in the hole.

I know we both speak the same lanuage but... I guess its one of those, trunk = boot, windshield = windscreen things :lol:

Can you tell that I have too much times on my hands.
 
Nice job on that cam Jack!
Thanks for the pics.

Rick
 
Jack,
'Suck it and see' means, if it needs it, do it, otherwise don't bother.
'Put screwed up paper in the hole' means exactly that, roll it into a ball and stick it down the hole. Normally if you use a chuck (as I expected) the piece is liable to disappear down the hole in the middle, so you fill it full of paper to stop that happening.

Same language, different culture. The UK language contains a wide variety of these little sayings and I keep forgetting that I should be writing American English, sorry about that Jack. My excuse was that it was very early morning when I wrote it.

John
 
Can anyone tell me where the pics and videos went. I'd sure like to see them.
 
ZP,

It would appear they have been deleted from Photobucket by their owner, regrettably they are no longer available to view.

Best Regards
Bob
 

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