Anyone know what model engine this is ?

[Cheshire Steve]

Just bought this, have seen one before, and suspect it is kit built. I am trying to find out where the design came from, was there a kit, and its age (thought to be 1960s or 70s).

In case the picture isn't clear, its a single cylinder, single acting, poppet valve steam engine. Inlet nearest, exhaust opposite. Simple !

 

[Bluechip]

Steve ..

Somewhat like the Jowitt Poppet Valve Engine by Stan Bray ?

But I think that was 1986/7/8 ish. Could be wrong.

Dave BC

 

[Cheshire Steve]

Aha ! A lead - have just searched for that and found an index indicating two articles in ME mags 3807 and 3809 in 1987 - can't turn up a picture yet. I am not familiar with Stan Bray's models - maybe it is time I was. This looks too well built to be scratch built from an article - unless the base casting and flywheels have been borrowed from something else and adapted.

 

[Cheshire Steve]

I first posted this on the Model Engineering forum , but as they are very focussed on steam railways I didn't expect an answer, and so I cross-posted it here - but I was wrong. One of the ME guys turned up that this is indeed a Poppet valve engine as described by Stan Bray in the 1987 Model Engineering magazine, based on an original engine by Samuel G Jowitt in 1907. A company called Chelston Model Engineering made castings for the model back in 1987 - it was £35 + P&P so expensive enough to explain why I have only seen two in 4 years.

So now the model side is satisfied - I wonder how to track down the 1907 Jowitt engine to see what it was intended for and whether it was ever successful.

Steve

 

[jmshep]

Steve
A nice looking engine - I cant help too much with its history but perhaps it is made by the same Jowett that made the Jowett Javelin car. Although not the greatest commercial success it was in front of its time both in style and engineering. The Jowett Car Company was based in Idle Bradford and I believe they produced cars from the late 40s to mid 50s. Not totally relevent - but may give you a starting point for some research?

John

 

[Cheshire Steve]

Ah, but this is Jowitt, not Jowett. I have been doing some searching, and this is almost certainly the Samuel G Jowitt employed by the Sheppee Motor Company in the 1920s - who produced steam wagons and did work with oil fired flash steam boilers. Whether he was employed by them in 1907 is unclear, but Francis Sheppee has patents in relation of ways to get variable cut-off when using lift or tappet valves because you can't use slide valves or other types with highly superheated steam.

A patent search for Francis Sheppee turns up some interesting material - and it is important not to be put off by the titles. UK 13384 of 1906 "Improvement in Motors for Operating Pumps and the Like" is about variable cut-off in steam engines running on highly superheated steam. UK 27736 of 1904 "Improvements in or relating to a Fluid Pressure Motor and Regulating System" is about feed pump regulation for oil fired flash steam powered vehicles, and describes all the essential elements of the system (with drawings, of course).

Flash steam is a particular interest of mine - and I had no idea when I bought this engine that it might lead me to people and patents related to early flash steam. Very interesting.

 

[Cheshire Steve]

From 1986, an advert for Chelston Model Engineering, who did the kit for this model, and seemingly vanished without trace. They say it is new to their range, but I have no idea what their range was, or when they started, or when they went, but it seems unusual that everything should vanish, patterns, drawings and all. Even more odd that they had information on this Jowitt engine now seemingly lost (at least we seem to have found Jowitt, but no reference to this engine).

Maybe someone will track down this thread and reveal all - in due course.

 

[Blogwitch]

Not a very good picture Steve.

But it does look like the original was a little more complicated than the version you have.

This was found on a Scandinavian auction site, and looks to be a highly prized engine.

John

 

[bentprop]

I think their arithmetic must be a bit off.1 Euro equals 10 squid?Surely not.

 

[GWRdriver]

an advert for Chelston Model Engineering, who . . . seemingly vanished without trace.

This has happened before. In the mid-1980s there was "Fleet Model Steam Services" (Lincs.) which produced a really beautiful and relatively large model Corliss mill engine. One day they were around, advertised a few times, and then they were gone. The same Corliss engine, or a reincarnation of it, is now produced by Southworth Engines.

 

[Cheshire Steve]

Good job I was sitting down when I saw the price of the auction engine, and thanks 'bentprop' for pointing out the currency conversion issue. For a moment I thought I might add a governor and do a bit or tarting up and ask £10,000 for my engine (which cost me about £100).

This auction item is twice the size of mine, so it is not the CME kit. Although it could be a scratch built example from the CME drawings, it might be (as they appear to claim) from the 1900s. It could also be the original from which the kit and drawings were taken.

One further thing is they mention the Sheppee Motor Company, which either means they have read this thread, and my '2+ 2 makes 5', or they have separate evidence supporting this.

 

[Jonpalt]

Hi,
Another old issue of Model Engineer gives some more information related to Chelston Model Engineers. The larger engine was also marketed as a kit being named the Jowitt Major, but as rightly suspected being based upon the original version by Samuel G Jowitt. It featured a governor and other refinements. Would be interesting to know if the engine as auctioned was the original or a well made Jowitt Major.

In addition, does anyone have a drawing for one of these engines? I was disappointed not to have bought a set of castings when probably should have done.

Best Regards,
Jonathan

 

[Cheshire Steve]

Returning to this old thread after a long time .. Is this the same model engine in Sweden that we were looking at for auction some years ago ?
http://auktionsverket.se/auction/nautica/2010-03-16/7107-angmaskinsmodell/

In which case it is indeed the CME kit, as the cylinder cover bears the CME logo, and 'Jowitt Major' - so I assume late 1980s, although the text translates to ...

"Steam Locomotive model , England early 1900s , a copy of the
motor from Samuel G. Jowitt , Sheppee Motor Co., York, 1907 ,
length 37.5 cm , mounted on wooden plate"

I still haven't found a trace of the original 1907 engine design. I wonder where CME discovered it.

 

[Jasonb]

Looks like a one off using Stuart 7" flywheels as they are the only ones I know of with the six lumps on the inside of the flywheel and those have anly been added in recent years.

Governor also has a lot of Stuart influence about it.

So either scaled up one from CME or based on original

 

[Cheshire Steve]

I wish we could find the original on which these are based. I have so far failed to find anything.

Jonpalt posted that CME marketed a Jowitt Major, and I would say this has to be one of them and not a one-off. If someone made a one-off model based on the original Jowitt engine, whether made in the 1900s or more recently, I don't see why they would cast CME into the cylinder cover, or fit a 1980s CME cover later which would disguise a vintage model as a modern copy.

Perhaps CME used Stuart as the supplier of their flywheels. The smaller engine has 3 inch flywheels, and is about 6 inches overall, so the 'Major' (at 37.5cm) is double size with a bit of extra length due to the governor-operated inlet valve.

I am a little disappointed that the larger model lacks any development of the design of the cam followers that operate the valves. I would really expect the cam followers to slide in a support bush, rather than have the large overhang seen in either size of model. I realise that often models are simplified to aid the modeller, but you would expect the larger model to have some of that extra detail. This could mean the details were not available to CME, so maybe their design was based on a simple physical model or crude drawing, and not a patent, engineering drawing or photo.

 

[Jonpalt]

Hi
Have just been reading through the above posts. Way back when I contacted what was left of CME they were rather vague. Business for unexplained reasons had gone wrong. However, CME were themselves the subject of an article in Model Engneer 1987/88 which included a photo of the original Samuel Jowitt 1907 engine which they, at that time, had in there care. In addition this being the same engine that had been used as the basis for the Jowitt Major. What happened to it is not currently known but I do have a plan...

Given the Sheppee connection it's likely that Jowitt either had or gained experience in poppet valves whilst employed by this company.

Hope that helps, any more thoughts or questions send me a personal message

Best Regards
Jonathan