The Characters Who Train Machinists
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I simply don't know which planet Government departments live on.I'm sure it's not the same one I populate!
Here in NZ,we had a program,which was giving unemployed people the chance to learn a trade through subsidised apprenticeships.According to the people actually running the scheme,it was extremely succesful,with over 70% of people getting jobs after participating.
Now,in it's infinite wisdom,the government has decided to withdraw funding,about half a million $,as they do not consider it "cost effective".
I presume they have a different calculator to mine,as paying the unemployment benefit not only costs more,but also creates social problems,such as violence,crime ,etc.
It is this sort of twisted thinking that is responsible for the decline in manufacturing skills.
I'm sure the same sort of thing goes on in government offices throughout the world.
I'm too old for it to concern me,but the young of today are going to be faced with a very strange world.Will a computer clear a blocked toilet?Build a house?Service your car?
Here in NZ,we had a program,which was giving unemployed people the chance to learn a trade through subsidised apprenticeships.According to the people actually running the scheme,it was extremely succesful,with over 70% of people getting jobs after participating.
Now,in it's infinite wisdom,the government has decided to withdraw funding,about half a million $,as they do not consider it "cost effective".
I presume they have a different calculator to mine,as paying the unemployment benefit not only costs more,but also creates social problems,such as violence,crime ,etc.
It is this sort of twisted thinking that is responsible for the decline in manufacturing skills.
I'm sure the same sort of thing goes on in government offices throughout the world.
I'm too old for it to concern me,but the young of today are going to be faced with a very strange world.Will a computer clear a blocked toilet?Build a house?Service your car?
chillybilly
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I was lucky enough to have a good appreticeship on leaving school in mech eng .By 23 i could see the writing was on the wall ,i did some nightschool and entered a service trade when the redundanceys came .
Got my own garage shop sorted when racing m.bikes and couldnt make my own bits half financial and half because i felt that what i had learned was going to waste .
As less training is done in the practical trades and people do not want to work in a "dirty" job ,those of us that have half a clue on how to make something when you have not got the luxury of mega money CNC machines and there programmers just a centre lathe and a few tools will always have a part to play .
Chinese make the stuff ,we all use the stuff and when it breaks who fixes the stuff when replacements are not available/affordable?
An example being a chef /owner of a restaraunt i attend for day job was moining that replacement large cooking pans were real expensive s good as the "old ones" I took one home ,dilled out the worn handle rivets ,made some tophats which were threaded theplain assing into the handle for strength .He was so chuffed he gave me a load more to do ,then his chef mates started dropping them round to be done .
It all helps ,and needless to say i can always drop in for a swift lunch ,point being there will always be a place for people who can do stuff ,its just the rest of the world forgets everthing is made somehow ,the times i have oversized and retapped a hole at work to get something going ,and the fella i am working with looks at you like you have just performed a magic trickk ,they have not got a clue how it all works :big:
Rambling now ....need sleep ......
Got my own garage shop sorted when racing m.bikes and couldnt make my own bits half financial and half because i felt that what i had learned was going to waste .
As less training is done in the practical trades and people do not want to work in a "dirty" job ,those of us that have half a clue on how to make something when you have not got the luxury of mega money CNC machines and there programmers just a centre lathe and a few tools will always have a part to play .
Chinese make the stuff ,we all use the stuff and when it breaks who fixes the stuff when replacements are not available/affordable?
An example being a chef /owner of a restaraunt i attend for day job was moining that replacement large cooking pans were real expensive s good as the "old ones" I took one home ,dilled out the worn handle rivets ,made some tophats which were threaded theplain assing into the handle for strength .He was so chuffed he gave me a load more to do ,then his chef mates started dropping them round to be done .
It all helps ,and needless to say i can always drop in for a swift lunch ,point being there will always be a place for people who can do stuff ,its just the rest of the world forgets everthing is made somehow ,the times i have oversized and retapped a hole at work to get something going ,and the fella i am working with looks at you like you have just performed a magic trickk ,they have not got a clue how it all works :big:
Rambling now ....need sleep ......
I have seen it happen all too often.
Boss of a small jobbing shop thinks he can make big bucks by going over to a CNC workshop because a customer has come up with a lucrative contract.
Gets a couple of second hand CNC machines in, a young programmer, plus gets rid of most of his old machines and staff.
Things go great for a short time, until the contract runs out that persuaded him to switch over in the first place. Then he has to compete with the big boys.
He can't get his prices down low enough to compete, and so goes under.
The jobbing shop, if run correctly, will never have to compete with the modern button pushing hi tech CNC shops. You are looking a two totally different products.
The way I personally see it, they are two very different industries, the hi tech one turns out pants polishing programmers and semi skilled machinists. Both of which are easily replaced nowadays. At one time, they were classed as super skilled, everyone and his dog thought it was the way forwards, but nowadays the industry is bulging at the seams with both, and can pick and choose who they take on.
The jobbing shop, on the other hand, will, if they take on apprentices, turn out highly skilled manual machinists, who will always be able to find work, or work for themselves to make a crust.
Now if you can train someone to do both types to a very high standard, that person will never go hungry.
I am the old jobbing shop type, who hopes to one day be able to do a bit of CNC machining. I might get there, I might not, but last year, even though only for a short while, I did prove to myself that I can easily make a living at it, if I ever need to, by using what skills I already have.
Getting back to training and showing people how to do things.
I am a great believer in passing information on, and even if just one person benefits from what I can show, then it is all worth my while. No one is perfect, and we all make mistakes sometimes, but if you don't even try, why bother?
To me, a picture on this site with a heading that says, 'look what I did last week', and nothing else, is not the way people should be shown. That just leads to frustration by the people seeing it, thinking that they will never be able to achieve it.
If you show something, also show and tell how it was achieved, otherwise you may as well post up pictures of roses growing in a garden, and saying you made them grow by putting BS around the roots.
Blogs
Boss of a small jobbing shop thinks he can make big bucks by going over to a CNC workshop because a customer has come up with a lucrative contract.
Gets a couple of second hand CNC machines in, a young programmer, plus gets rid of most of his old machines and staff.
Things go great for a short time, until the contract runs out that persuaded him to switch over in the first place. Then he has to compete with the big boys.
He can't get his prices down low enough to compete, and so goes under.
The jobbing shop, if run correctly, will never have to compete with the modern button pushing hi tech CNC shops. You are looking a two totally different products.
The way I personally see it, they are two very different industries, the hi tech one turns out pants polishing programmers and semi skilled machinists. Both of which are easily replaced nowadays. At one time, they were classed as super skilled, everyone and his dog thought it was the way forwards, but nowadays the industry is bulging at the seams with both, and can pick and choose who they take on.
The jobbing shop, on the other hand, will, if they take on apprentices, turn out highly skilled manual machinists, who will always be able to find work, or work for themselves to make a crust.
Now if you can train someone to do both types to a very high standard, that person will never go hungry.
I am the old jobbing shop type, who hopes to one day be able to do a bit of CNC machining. I might get there, I might not, but last year, even though only for a short while, I did prove to myself that I can easily make a living at it, if I ever need to, by using what skills I already have.
Getting back to training and showing people how to do things.
I am a great believer in passing information on, and even if just one person benefits from what I can show, then it is all worth my while. No one is perfect, and we all make mistakes sometimes, but if you don't even try, why bother?
To me, a picture on this site with a heading that says, 'look what I did last week', and nothing else, is not the way people should be shown. That just leads to frustration by the people seeing it, thinking that they will never be able to achieve it.
If you show something, also show and tell how it was achieved, otherwise you may as well post up pictures of roses growing in a garden, and saying you made them grow by putting BS around the roots.
Blogs
Blogwitch said:
Well said, Blogs.
"Look what I did!" is almost worthless, and usually only make one person feel good.
"Here's how I did it" has true value. The person who did it can can know he's done well in sharing. The people who are watching can feel good about learning, about seeing how things are done that they thought they could not do, and witnessing the solution to things that seemed un-solvable.
We're lucky to have some of the latter types right here.
Dean
rickharris
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Change happens. New materials - Plastics, Graphite, Composites, Smart materials etc force or enable new technology to come into the manufacturing world. Sometimes for the better (sometimes perhaps not)
Few children these days have the hobbies we had, making do because there wasn't the commercial option, or building aircraft and other models. Most everything comes in a shiny sealed never to be opened or repaired box with a fairly limited life expectancy before being replaced by the newer latest model.
There is no longer an impetus for children to learn the skills or patience required to spend weeks manufacturing something that may or may not actually work in the end.
But then again this throw away society is what has fuelled our growing industry over the past 50 years and for many of the people here improved their standard of living and wealth beyond the imagination of their parents or grand parents.
The thrill of teaching is not in doing the job for them but in making it possible for them to learn how to do it. In old apprenticeship terms long periods of just watching with the occasional opportunity to have a go at something non-critical was the way to absorb the wisdom of the work place. Far too time consuming for today! Hence the odd belief that education will replace experience and everyone should have a degree.
It's easy to see why as lower costs allow people will replace the time spent to gain skills with a machine with those "skills" built in, much easier to mill a few 1/10's off a block than file them off, especially if you want it to be square and true when you finish.
Change happens, what is important is that some people keep the old skills alive for as sure as eggs are eggs at some point they will be needed and valuable.
Few children these days have the hobbies we had, making do because there wasn't the commercial option, or building aircraft and other models. Most everything comes in a shiny sealed never to be opened or repaired box with a fairly limited life expectancy before being replaced by the newer latest model.
There is no longer an impetus for children to learn the skills or patience required to spend weeks manufacturing something that may or may not actually work in the end.
But then again this throw away society is what has fuelled our growing industry over the past 50 years and for many of the people here improved their standard of living and wealth beyond the imagination of their parents or grand parents.
The thrill of teaching is not in doing the job for them but in making it possible for them to learn how to do it. In old apprenticeship terms long periods of just watching with the occasional opportunity to have a go at something non-critical was the way to absorb the wisdom of the work place. Far too time consuming for today! Hence the odd belief that education will replace experience and everyone should have a degree.
It's easy to see why as lower costs allow people will replace the time spent to gain skills with a machine with those "skills" built in, much easier to mill a few 1/10's off a block than file them off, especially if you want it to be square and true when you finish.
Change happens, what is important is that some people keep the old skills alive for as sure as eggs are eggs at some point they will be needed and valuable.
The best thing about this site are the narratives/tutorials that the members post of there projects.
I have learned so much in the past few months by reading as many of the posts as I possibly can.
I acquired a 1994 ShopTask that needed a lot of tuning and repair. I did not know how bad of shape this machine was until I tried making a few of the tools that I read about here.
Last week, I built a Mill Tramming tool that a member posted. Because of the inaccuracy of my machine, I ended up making it twice. The first attempt got me close, the second one got me closer.
BTW, Thanks to Bogstandard for the tutorial of the Tramming Tool.
I need to replace the bearings for the lathe spindle.
Thanks :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: to all of you who are educating me in how to use machine tools.
SAM
I have learned so much in the past few months by reading as many of the posts as I possibly can.
I acquired a 1994 ShopTask that needed a lot of tuning and repair. I did not know how bad of shape this machine was until I tried making a few of the tools that I read about here.
Last week, I built a Mill Tramming tool that a member posted. Because of the inaccuracy of my machine, I ended up making it twice. The first attempt got me close, the second one got me closer.
BTW, Thanks to Bogstandard for the tutorial of the Tramming Tool.
I need to replace the bearings for the lathe spindle.
Thanks :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: to all of you who are educating me in how to use machine tools.
SAM
Bernd
Well-Known Member
Here's an interesting little story. If any of you have Guy Lautard's First Beside Reader there's a little story near the back, page 195 to be exact. It's entitled "Where Gears Come From" It was a story related by a marine engineer who had been in the business for 50 years.
Think about it a minute. This was in the '30's. Your knowledge is usually a product of your environment and your up bringing.
Bernd
Think about it a minute. This was in the '30's. Your knowledge is usually a product of your environment and your up bringing.
Bernd
