Help on pricing a south bend 9"

[drysdam]

I just looked at what I think was a really nice a SB 9". It's been sitting in a garage for 15-20 years and was apparently lightly used by a professional (in his home) previous to that. ~1962 manufacture date, Model A. Built-in bench.

It isn't running right now because the power was apparently snipped off at the wall. We're going to try to get it powered to check it out. However, I went through the advice here: http://www.mermac.com/advicenew.html and it all looked good. No shaking or jiggling in anything, all the oil cups full, no ridge on the ways. I was able to run the barely-loosened carriage the full length of the ways. The 3 jaw chuck was a little surface-rusted, but otherwise it was in good (but greasy/oily) shape. The headstock came off with very little trouble. Both the tapers seemed clean and smooth. No missing gear teeth. Rotated the headstock with no trouble at all. The v-belt was worn and the detent (or whatever it is--the lever you grab to "take it out of gear") that tightens/loosens the headstock pulleys from the countershaft was missing, but I assume it was somewhere in the shop. Engaging the half-nut stopped the carriage cold, I otherwise wasn't able to check out the apron.

The problem is that neither the seller nor I know where to price it. I've looked on ebay and price for Model As varies from as low as $300 to as high as $3000. I found two closed auctions that look pretty close to what I saw:

Exhibit A: http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&_trksid=p4340.l2557&hash=item4cfe65b95c&item=330685593948&nma=true&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&rt=nc&si=VbQRsxVghytoQtRmECO4Dk5hfP8%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc
Exhibit B: http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&_trksid=p4340.l2557&hash=item5648b71e65&item=370587147877&nma=true&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&rt=nc&si=VbQRsxVghytoQtRmECO4Dk5hfP8%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc

I'm pretty sure that B is overpriced at $1500, especially as it comes with no tooling. But I'm also fairly sure that A was a good bargain at $800. The lathe I looked at comes with a significant amount of tooling, including many cutters, a few collets, a couple turrets (in addition to the original lantern), a few dogs, a drill chuck or two, some misc stuff that I can't remember AND what looks like a pristine, Craftsman, 8" 4 jaw chuck new in its original box.

In order to move it, I'm probably going to have to rent a truck and even then will need to remove the lathe from the bench to get it down the stairs into my basement.

I'd really like the value of this to be ~800-1000 but in my heart I fear it's more like $1500. Actually, in my heart of hearts, I truly fear a fair price is more like $3000. What do people here think?

 

[hopeless]

My thought is as its old iron people get sentimental and price accordingly. Deal with it as a head not heart deision and mak an offer of $800 and haggle from there. An item is only worth what a buyer is prepared to pay for it and you should always factor in the cost of getting it to your place and reduce your offer accordingly.
Personally I now don't look at old machines as there are many cheaper imports that do the same or better than the old iron and have better bearings etc. I fell unless you are a fitter & turner (machinist) you would be better off with a newer machine as availability of spares etc may be easier to get.
Having said all that it still is your decision and only you can put the price on the lathe. If its from a friend or relative then the problem gets harder.
Cheers
Pete

 

[bronson]

I have bought a model b and model a the model b came with quite a bit of stuff but has wear on ways .002 on 12" i paid $400 and $180 for new motor very happy with lathe. The model a i had came with everything and then some full collets chucks tool room lathe on stand under drive paid $1400 cleaned and and had to sell sold for $2000. So any were from $800 to $1500 sounds good and sometimes where you live makes a difference.

Bronson

 

[drysdam]

Upon mental review, I realized that this post sounded like I'd only looked at two lathes for price points. Far from it. These are simply the only two I could find that matched the one I saw fairly well (basically, Model As with built in benches, or similar). I couldn't find any other prices on close items elsewhere...and these vary by a factor of 2! So I'd appreciate further stories of recentish sales of comparable items, with rough dollar figures.

 

[n4zou]

Personally I now don't look at old machines as there are many cheaper imports that do the same or better than the old iron and have better bearings etc. I fell unless you are a fitter & turner (machinist) you would be better off with a newer machine as availability of spares etc may be easier to get.

I second this. 24 yrs ago I purchased a new import 12" X 36" lathe. I've always taken good care of it so it's never been abused. It's as accurate today as the first day I put it in operation. As for tooling; you'll end up replacing all that old tooling with a quick change tool post, holders, and indexable insert tool bits.

 

[drysdam]

Well, it comes with two turrets. I might eventually decide I want a QCTP, but not until I need more than 8 tools at once. And at that point, I hope I'm good enough to make my own.

I'm not really looking for the pros and cons of old American iron vs imports. I can weigh that myself and to the extent I'm wrong I doubt anyone can convince me otherwise until experience does it.

What I'm looking for is a round number to put on the "old iron" side of the scale to balance against the known number on the import I have my eye on. Are they roughly of equal dollar value and all I have to justify is the difference in capabilities? Or is the SB a savings? Or double the price? (The shipping will likely end up about the same, assuming I have to rent a truck and maybe other moving equipment.)

 

[Tin Falcon]

I paid IIRC $750 for mine a bunch of years ago. well tooled a college machine used well but not abused. more recently I saw a nicer newr machine a little more nicer tooling for $1500 these are dealer retail prices. so offer the people a grand . if all seems to be in order . that is assuming two chucks taper attachment collet attachment tool holders drill chuck if it has a steady rest micrometer stop follow rest maybe a bit more. It is hard to pin down exact numbers.

I'd really like the value of this to be ~800-1000 but in my heart I fear it's more like $1500

that sounds about right the higher number being a dealer price.
Tin

 

[drysdam]

Right, when I make an offer I'm going to point out that the prices I found were slightly inflated by being dealers who have to offer return guarantees, etc.

I didn't see a taper attachment or rests and forgot to check for stops. I'll put that on my list to check on the return visit.

 

[Sic Semper Tyrannis]

My SB9A 42" is 1947 came with a nice 3 jaw, a beat up 3 jaw. Was used in school and had some cross slide impacts as well as some divots around the chuck. Some tooling. Lantern tool post. No ridge, but no scraping left around chuck. snug tailstock would run the length of the lathe.

No stand. Needed a good cleaning and I replaced all the felts and cleaned it up and painted it. Needed a flat belt (used a car belt...very nice and cheap!!).

I am in the mid-atlantic and we don't see tons of them around. $550 and I snapped it up.

You really need an RSS feed on Craigslist to catch stuff like this.

 

[Stan]

Just like realestate: Location, Location, Location.
Where are you and where is the lathe?

 

[drysdam]

I'm in South NH, the lathe is in North MA.

Agreed on the Craigslist RSS. I've got that set up so I can watch for tooling, accessories, etc. I'm a little wary of buying huge machines from total unknowns, though. (This guy happens to work at my same company, which I think will make us both feel better about not getting cheated in a one-time transaction.)

 

[drysdam]

Hold everything!

The $1500 machine didn't sell at that price. The auction just ended.

OK, now I feel a lot better about only offering $800 or so.

 

[Tin Falcon]

I do not think dealers offer warrantees on used machines but they do buy from private folks auctions etc then they haul it to there shop . they do have to cover overhead and still make a profit.


tooling affects the price a lot

figuure $100 - 200 per major accessory like steady rest follow rest micrometer stop taper attachment and chuck collet setup. 25 - 50 for a back plate
tin

 

[pete]

While I don't own a S/B lathe, (yet) I do haunt the S/B form on Practical Machinist because of my shaper. That lathe sounds like it's in very good shape with quite a bit of tooling. Going by past posts on the S/B forum. I'd say it's worth a low of about $1500 to maybe as high as $2500. As someone has already mentioned, It does depend a lot on your location and the exact condition of the equipment though.

Pete

 

[steamer]

options run the gamut of price with the more rare accessories running more money

Taper attachments are super pricey! as are some of the other more esoteric attachments

Check out Tools4Cheap for new items for SB9's

Location and condition are everything!

Dave

 

[drysdam]

Well, I don't need to get too esoteric yet. Things like taper attachments I'm probably better off making myself. It's not like it would distract me from any "real work"...

Thanks for the tip on Tools4Cheap. They aren't that far from me, so I could even save on shipping!

 

[drysdam]

To follow up to help future pricers: We closed at $1000 and an agreement that he'd help me move the heavy parts. I feel like I got a pretty good deal.

I got the rebuild kit from stevewb on ebay. It looks really well made and organized. My paint looks to be in perfect condition, so all I need to do is degrease and reassemble with all the wicks and wipers and I should be good to go.

 

[lazylathe]

th_wwp

Sounds like you got yourself a good deal!!!
The rebuild kit does look good, i also bought one.
Just looks like a daunting task of disassembling pretty much the whole lathe!
Also requires some special tooling...

Andrew

 

[drysdam]

The auction description and the manual intro both say it doesn't require special tools. However, skimming through some of the more advanced parts I've seen references to arbor presses and a picture of either a drill press or milling machine. But some of those may merely be the best way, not the only way.

 

[drysdam]

Oh and I'll try to remember to take some pictures in situ tonight and then cleaned up later.