Myford ML4 spindle

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JCSteam

JCSteam

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Hello,

I've been running my lathe, and I've noticed that the spindle, like a lot of bits on the lathe has become looser with use.

Is it normal for the bearings in the headstock to bed in and develop play? I can't feel movement I can hear it, the oil in the bearings squelching when moving the spindle up and down, there is no lateral play in the spindle that I can hear, or feel. Just when the spindle is moved vertically, (with a fair amount of muscle).

Am I worrying about nothing, or is this an early sign of an issue?

Also as a side note, a lot of the myford stuff I'm seeing now and documents of the old lathe. All show it as having an 1.1/8" thread where as my spindle has a smaller 3/8" with a 9TPI thread. Is this something that would probably been a later modification by a previous owner to sort out an accidental crossthreading the standard thread/normal wear on the spindle?
 
Are you sure you have an ML4 and not an ML2? They are very similar.

As far as I can remember, the ML2 had a much smaller spindle nose thread (like mine had), of which backplates with the smaller thread are no longer available, you have to make your own.

Also, don't go trying to tighten up the bearing holders to make the spindle more snug, you are liable to crack the main castings without using the correct peelable shims to go into the gap (no longer available). When I came to refurbish the one I picked up, one bit of casting had actually broken off and the other was most of the way through. The second one I had cast iron welded and the first I had to machine away the top part of the casting and make a new top half that bolted to the head casting..

It sounds like you require a new pair of spindle bearings made and then set up from scratch, I was lucky and had a second lathe to machine up a new pair.

One good point about plain bearing spindles, they give a much better finish than heads with bearings in them.

John
 
From the literature I've been suplied so far I believe it is the ML4, the spindle measures 1.1/8" but the nose is turned down and is in really good shape for a lathe that's some 70 year old. This is what leads me to believe it may have been done by a previous owner.

I don't like the sound of having to 're machine new spindle bearings, and I've already been told about the risk of cracking the casting. The headstock is made up of two castings, the main lower part, and left bracket which is a split bracket, solid at the back bolted at the front, and also the top bracket between the chuck and the back gears.
 
Also forgot to add, I have a faceplate, 4 jaw, and 3 jaw that all came with the lathe. So I'm not too concerned at the moment with buying new chucks. Just wondered if it was something that's showing early signs of problems.
 
I also had a 70 year old lathe (Southbend) and it needed constant topping up of the oil reservoirs. Oil poured out quickly but the machine worked and it is still doing good work for the next owner.

I wouldn't worry about the spindle play. I found that parting off with a hack saw reduced loads and chatter that comes with bearing wear. That was my solution as the rest of the machining processes were not an issue.
 
To be honest I've not had much chatter, even when parting off, the lathe runs smoothly, but does as you say seem to loose oil from several orifices, ie bearings lol. If I'm honest the lathe could do with a major overhaul, but I've neither the skill set or time to do a proper job. So I was just wanting a heads up what will come next if the spindle develops excessive wear? Or even if the squelching I can hear is excessive wear, or wether it's normal and will be lost during use, ie when the bearings warm up? It's not something I've noticed till today. But the machine has been having fresh oil through it were the previous owner seems to have greased everything overly sufficient before ;)
 
John makes reference to cracked headstock castings and these are caused by wear of both the cast iron headstock and the spindle. These refer to Myfords which are the older versions- and not the '4'

The 4- if my memory is holding out- had sintered bronze bearings and if my memory is still hanging on, I referred you to the writings of Martin Cleeve who ML4 knocked its bronze bearings out regularly.

Earlier I suggested politely that you researched in Model Engineer the old writings by Cleeve.
The situation was well known then and Cleeve even with his newer ML7 fitted a sintered bronze bearing to support the lead indium bearings on the newer machine.

N
 
Hi Norm,

I've looked through the internet, (or rather Google searched) to try and find the information, where do I need to be looking. Searching the internet has drawn a blank. Though it did turn up some nice pictures of the ML2/3 as well as 4 that have been lovingly restored.

Jon
 
Jon

I keep repeating myself when I say 'Model Engineer' which was/is one of the principal magazines on the subject at least in the UK.
Where are relevant copies? Obviously, most Model Engineering Clubs have copies oin their libraries and probably most public libraries CAN get subscribers the bound books.

With tongue in cheek, three Goldstar airmen died in flames avoiding the British Library which contains every magazine published. It's sort of why I use the moniker-- I was there and I wrote up the story then and re-wrote the story- exactly 50 years to the day afterwards.

So do I as I said earlier and contact your local society to see what they have as a first off. Whimsically, the real experts on machine tool restoration are only 10 miles from you and that is where the Atkinsons were to be found in the early days of steam. with Timothy Hackworth.

Always remember that knowledge is hard won- or mine is.
However, my kids are constantly nagging me to scrap my model engineering 'library' because I am getting very old and can still remember enough anyway.

Up to you to pursue the search whilst you have the chance

N
 
goldstar31 said:
Always remember that knowledge is hard won- or mine is.
However, my kids are constantly nagging me to scrap my model engineering 'library' because I am getting very old and can still remember enough anyway.
Click to expand...

Just tell them that there is buyers for those magazines out there, and some of them fetch a lot of money, that should stop the nagging.
 
ThomasSK said:
Just tell them that there is buyers for those magazines out there, and some of them fetch a lot of money, that should stop the nagging.
Click to expand...

Almost every year I snag a few old magazines at the Cabin Fever auction. Reading them has fueled my interest in machining and is a low cost way to experience the hobby as I slowly build up my shop. Some of them are long out of print, some useless but for the most part they are real gems of information and education.

So yeah the last thing you want to do is to throw them out. Sell them, auction them off or leave them to somebody in your will that will use them.
 
Wizard69 said:
.

So yeah the last thing you want to do is to throw them out. Sell them, auction them off or leave them to somebody in your will that will use them.
Click to expand...

The sad thing is all this about Myford ML4's and whatever existed some 11 years ago and before that it was some 50 years earlier when I had a worn out machine to be restored.

Same old problems-- and my kids have all their spare time involved in charitable works and model engineering can hardly qualify. I'm merely trying to stave off the onset of old age, infirmary and memory loss.

Now where was I when I went off*********?:wall:

Regards from whoever I am
 
I agree with above Norm, get rid of them if you must, but make sure it's not to the tip. Make sure someone who can use them has them, (nudge ;) ) it's been said before that not a lot of new things happen in engineering, and the same stuff that was learned 50years ago can still be applied to modern day machines, and machining. I just hope I get one of two jobs I'm going for as there both working with qualified engineers, so I should be able to pick up some tips, tricks and techniques through them.one of them is doing on the job training but not paid as well as someone who's served a 4year NVQ . Will still be interesting though. :)
 
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