Steel boiler construction

[Julian]

Hi All

First off I live in the UK which is probably very very relevant to the question.

I have a length of seamless steel pipe making its way to me for probably and hopefully no charge. It comes from a multi-million pound hospital heating system and was probably 'ordered in error and cut up before they realised' so surplus to requirements!. It is steel tube for high pressure and high temps. I am told it is about 6" diameter

I am a competant arc welder and now moving to Mig. I am not certified or profession but would class myself as a good amateur.

Here's the question...If I can make it into a boiler and run all the necessary tests as per Rich's thread (Small boiler) elsewhere on this forum to prove it is ok can I get a certificate on it in the UK?

Especially if I can (though possibly still if the answer is no) can anyone suggest some available plans to work to.

The work will not be for a while but I like to collect materials and info well in advance of starting another project. I have several sepparate collections of materials getting close to being started. Next is probably convert the mill to CNC to allow other projects to be started.

Regards

Julian

 

[Maryak]

Julian,

Try this link - http://www.myhobbystore.com/

There are a good few boiler plans listed both vertical and horizontal as well as fire and watertube

Hope this helps

 

[tel]

Not in Oz, you wouldn't. The code says welding has to be done by a qualified person.

Best bet for an amateur with a steel boiler is go for the Briggs type.

 

[Julian]

Gis a clue.....wats the "Briggs Type" please


Julian.

 

[tel]

http://www.narrowgauge.iform.com.au/boiler.html

 

[SandyC]

Hi Guy's,

Julian: -

This is not exactly an easy question to answer since it depends upon various factors.

In the UK small model boilers (non-commercial) having a total volume/capacity of greater than 3 bar/litres and less than 500 bar/litres are tested in accordance with: -

“The examination and Testing of Miniature Steam Boilers new edition 2006” with amendment (2007).

A copy of this is available from: -

Walker Midgley Insurance brokers Ltd,
Yorkshire Bank Chambers,
Fargate,
Sheffield,
S1 2HD.

This covers both Copper and Steel (not stainless steel) model boiler construction.

In all cases, any boiler being built, to other than a recognised design available through the model engineering trade and/or press, will need to have full design drawings, calculations etc submitted to the examiner/inspector. (Generally prior to construction).

Specifically for STEEL boilers: -
The materials used must be suitable for the construction and should be accompanied by FULL material certification.
In addition, the material identification codes shall be INDELIBLY marked on all plates and barrels etc.

Where the welding is to be undertaken by a NON-CODED welder, the inspector WILL require suitable/specified welding samples to be made available for testing prior to the commencement of boiler construction.

If these procedures are not carried out and approved by the relevant tester/inspector prior to commencement of boiler construction then the likelihood of obtaining a certificate is minimal.

If the boiler is to be used solely by the constructor, and not in a public place, or in a place accessible to the public (‘Public’ can include members of your own family) then a test certificate is not required.
In these circumstances, the boiler can, and should most definitely, be self-tested/certified.
Both hydraulically and under steam

Self-testing can, and should, be carried out (at the very least, hydraulically) prior to any official certification testing, if only to satisfy you, that a pass is more likely

Certification testing consists of 2 parts…. A HYDRAULIC TEST at 2x max working pressure and a STEAM TEST at normal working pressure.
Both will need to be passed before a valid boiler certificate can be issued, and the boiler placed in service.


So...... your piece of (non-stainless) STEEL tube will need a material compliance certificate, as will all other materials used.
You will need to provide suitable/specified weld test samples, regardless of design.(Prior to construction)

If not built to a recognised/published design (for which your tube must be type specific) then you will need to provide full design drawings and stress calculations to the inspector/tester, again, prior to construction.

As has already been posted, there are some designs available, however, your material may not be design specific, and any deviation will be considered a NEW DESIGN.

Hope this is of some help.

SandyC ;D

NOTE: -

Model boilers having a total volume/capacity of up to 3 bar/litres are exempt from UK testing requirements, however, it is most definitely recommended that an annual steam test be carried out in order to verify correct operation of the safety valve/s.
I, personally, would strongly urge that any boiler (regardless of volume/capacity) is tested fully, both hydraulically and under steam, for safety.

 

[Circlip]

This is going to look like a sarcastic answer Julian, but to state "Competent and Amateur" in the same sentence is something NOT to be applied to welded boilers. You really should read the complimentary thread on "Boiler Safety"
Living in the UK we are regulated by the Sparks and Gas people as you should well know because of the abortions carried out by the " Oh, DIY is my hobby" brigade. In a "Propper" industrial Fabrication shop, out of 10 welders who had bits of paper proving they had been taught to glue bits of metal together PROPERLY, I had only ONE CODED welder. STEEL Pressure vessels are a TOTALLY different beast to what Rich is making and notice how Sandy has baulked away from STAINLESS (Don't even try to go down that route)
Best use for the steel tube is to cut it into 4" long sections, weld a plate onto the bottom, (give you some more welding practice) Paint them and turn them into plant pot holders, Chrissy presents for the family, save on personal insurance too.
Regards Ian.

 

[Bernd]

Ian,

I've just finished reading this thread. I have one question in regards to the UK regulations. If I lived in the UK, I don't, I'm in the US, could I build a boiler and use it as long as I don't operate it in a public venue? I guess I'm asking if they have control over you building one and using it in your shop on your private property? I have a problem with that if that is so. But if the boiler is to be taken to a public show then I would say it needs to stand up to the codes. I have a problem with the govt. trying to save me from myself.

Bernd

 

[SandyC]

Ian,

I've just finished reading this thread. I have one question in regards to the UK regulations. If I lived in the UK, I don't, I'm in the US, could I build a boiler and use it as long as I don't operate it in a public venue? I guess I'm asking if they have control over you building one and using it in your shop on your  private property? I have a problem with that if that is so. But if the boiler is to be taken to a public show then I would say it needs to stand up to the codes. I have a problem with the govt. trying to save me from myself. 

Bernd

Hi BernD,

The short answer is... yes you can........ however, what happens when your neighbour drops in to your shop for a chat..... and something blows out and he/she gets burned, or worse?
At this point, your shop, albeit on private land, in LEGAL TERMS, becomes a 'PUBLIC' place.... your neighbour, or for that matter a member of your family are LEGALLY classified as 'PUBLIC'.
Your insurance, if you actually purchased some, would instantly become NULL and VOID if you did not have a VALID boiler test certificate, and you could/would become liable for any compensation claim.

Here in the UK, up until January 2006, All boilers (pressure vessels) were required to be manufactured and tested in accordance with the legislation; PRESSURE EQUIPMENT REGULATIONS 1999 SI NO.1999/2001 ("PER") P.E.D. 97/23/EC.
and the LEGAL requirements of 'PRESSURE SYSTEMS SAFETY REGULATIONS 2000'.

These were government rules (under the control of THE HEALTH AND SAFETY EXECUTIVE...( HSE)) and everyone had to comply with them, including MODEL ENGINEERING.

Since these regulation were intended for FULL SIZE COMMERCIAL applications, most of these rules did not normally apply to those operating pressure equipment as a hobby activity and the HSE, along with a large number of UK Model engineering associations and Insurance companies, got together and came to an agreed set of rules specifically for MODEL BOILERS.

These agreed new rules became active in January 2006 and the HSE (other than in an advisory position), or the Government now have very little to do with it.

It is now more model engineering Association and Insurance driven.

If you need/intend to operate in a PUBLIC place you must have insurance (legal requirement), which means you must comply with the rules.

I think you will find things somewhat similar in the USA, but it may vary from state to state.

Regards.

SandyC

 

[Circlip]

Hi Bernd, Although we have some rules and regs over here which we criticize and referr to the "Nanny state" others are for the guidance of wise men and the obeyance of fools. One thing to remember, over here, land is at a premium and when you look at most of OUR workshops they are much smaller than the norm over there, and on modern property build over here even detached houses are cramped together cos the builders can fit more into a given space = more profit. So the result of this is that we are much closer to our neighbours and what we do in the name of personal freedom affects others far more quickly.
The reference I made to the Gas and Electricity companies forcing legislation onto us is because of what I inferred as the DIY brigade, and on many occasions accidents have occurred due to some peoples delusions of their capabilities. Take the case of someone who can solder, fitting a gas fire. If due to a leak an explosion occurs, over there it may take your house out, but over here, it takes more than one out. This is NOT a hypothesis, it's happened many times, thus the legislation that anyone fitting or servicing gas appliances has to be CORGI registered(Gas fitting Qualifications).Before this, the rules were that "A competent person" was allowed to fit things, same with electrical installations in the home.
Rick (Rake60) has been accused quite regularly of hitting the "Safety Button", sorry, I'm another miserable old moaning fart when it comes to this, OK, you want to blow your head off, it's your right in the name of personal freedom and I would defend your right to do so, BUT if there's any chance of your blowing mine off in the process can you PLEASE warn me first cos SWTSMBO has one or two jobs for me to do.
Regards Ian.

 

[Bernd]

Sandy and Ian,

Thank you very much for that explination.

How I feel about that whole situation would take to long to write about and would not fit in with the theme of this forum. So that said I would like to end this subject as far as codes and libility is concerned and concentrate on the subject line.

Again thank you for your input.

Bernd

 

[tel]

Bernd, the original question involved the getting of a certificate, which, of course, invokes the codes and brings up the question of liability - so the remarks are spot on topic.

It's a difficult subject, and one that could take more time than any of us have to deal with

 

[Bernd]

Correct Tel and I seem to be weaveing off the subject. Thread Hijack, sorry about that.

I understand the saftey aspect of the whole thing. Not everybody is capable of doing the same work. I just feel if I want to make a boiler and use it for myself without showing it in public I should. If I'm going to go to public shows then I have and should comply with the codes. I understand that perfectly well. I won't want to go to a show where anybody who "thinks" they can solder or weld will be displaying a boiler that might explode in my face. I just don't like being told what I can do behind my closed and private doors. 8)

Bernd

 

[tel]

Bernd, I agree with you mate, but in this day and age it's real easy to get into bother. I gave up exhibiting at various venues for just that reason. Oh, AND the fact that a lot of organisers were asking exhibitors to carry extraordinary sums of insurance. My opinion is that if the organisers of an event want you present you should be included on their insurance.