Radial Bi Rotary Engine

Discussion in 'A Work In Progress' started by frankydevaere, Mar 2, 2011.

  1. Mar 2, 2011 #1

    frankydevaere

    frankydevaere

    frankydevaere

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    What's in a name :eek:

    A idea popped up and i build a waste-prototype of a new kind of bi-rotary engine mounted in fixed outer-ring ( kind of Wankel ), and it worked ( until eventually it blow up, testing how long it would last )
    Someone told me the idea was brilliant and advised me to patent it, so i did.

    Now i am rebuilding it a little bigger, and more good looking.

    I'm planning to put images on this forum , if that is OK .

    the principle : [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZqCdNU8MlA[/ame]

    a lot of info : http://www.wix.com/devaere/radial-bi-rotary esp section WHITE PAGES ==> FAQ and FAMILY ( with a lot of patents )

    hope you enjoy.
     
  2. Mar 2, 2011 #2

    Niels Abildgaard

    Niels Abildgaard

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    Very interesting and be carefull.
    The motion of the pistons is very much like a Fairchild Caminez engine and it was given a try for aircrafts many years ago.
    Problem with the scheme was the reaction torgue or delivered torque reverses two times per rev for all four pistons simultaneously giving a very rough engine.
    You may need to have two systems displaced 90 degree on output shaft ie 8 cylinders to have a smooth engine.
     
  3. Mar 2, 2011 #3

    BillTodd

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    The Caminez was cam engine with a lot of extra reciprocating mass from the roller cam followers.

    This Devaere design should suffer less from vibration, but quite how the high surface speed / high pressure cylinder seal is going to work will prove interesting ;)



    Caminez9.gif
     
  4. Mar 2, 2011 #4

    dieselpilot

    dieselpilot

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    There is no out of balance mass in the Caminez design. Niels is talking about torque due to cylinder pressure.
     
  5. Mar 2, 2011 #5

    BillTodd

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    No, the vibration (torque) is not due to cylinder pressure, it's due to the reciprocating mass - The light weight cam/crank & prop was slowed drastically (thus causing the torque) by the, relatively heavy, pistons & rollers as all four changed direction twice per rev.

     
  6. Mar 2, 2011 #6

    frankydevaere

    frankydevaere

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    Hmm, the guys on this forum sure know what they are taking about. :bow:

    Yes , the Fairchild-Caminez Cam Engine was flying, and yes the weight of de rollerbearings doubled the weight of the pistons ( doubling Inertie )
    The Caminez was not a rotary, it was a radial (rotating cam ).

    In WOII a dutch airplane and motorcycle builder Joop Carly launched a engine called "Wondertol". It was a caminez with a fixed cam, a rotating cylinder bank AND with a fixed outerring. A predessor of Wankel. ( http://dl.dropbox.com/u/16914589/RBR/Joop Carleys Wondertol.jpg )
    Porche didn't knew that and patented this : http://ip.com/patent/US3077870
    Recently Jerry Hale built a working one, I think it's already mentioned on this forum : [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cck13dZV_x0[/ame]

    Besides the different drive mechanism, my cylinder bank is rotating 5 times slower and in opposite direction than/of the crankshaft. Bi-rotary. Giving less wear on the - lets say - apex seals.

    This results in 12 ignitions per cylinder bank revolution, done by 5 revolutions of the crankshaft.
    Wankel has 3 ingitions per rotor revolution, done by 3 revolutions of the crankshaft.

    In fact, this single block engine is 2.5 times a wankel ( 2.5 ignitions per 1 revolution crankshaft , wankel is 1 to 1 )
     
  7. Mar 2, 2011 #7

    BillTodd

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    Ah yes, I see that now (missed it first time 'round fumbling for the volume control - why does you tube insist of starting videos at full blast???) :)

    Looking forward to your build log

    Bill
     
  8. Mar 2, 2011 #8

    coopertje

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    Very ambitious project, interesting design! I will be sure following along. Just to watch, I dont have clue about rotaries.... ;D

    Bill, try to click once on the youtube, it will play normally. Only if you double click it will open in full screen.

    Regards Jeroen

     
  9. Mar 2, 2011 #9

    frankydevaere

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  10. Mar 2, 2011 #10

    dieselpilot

    dieselpilot

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    Yes, of course. It's the force required to change the piston direction. How is this different than the typical four cylinder, other than the total weight of reciprocating components? The Caminez appears to have much greater stroke than this design. Page 579-580, "The Internal Combustion Engine In Theory and Practice- Vol.2", by CF Taylor, talks about 4th order vibration due to the two lobe design of the Caminez.


    Is a prototype RBR being built?
     
  11. Mar 2, 2011 #11

    frankydevaere

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    I read that to. I don't know why there is a 4th order in the cam-mechanisme. In know in the ordinary crank mechanisme 1st and 2nd order. But i have them always balanced.

    I choose for a short stroke :
    - outer diameter as close as possible to the center = minimum velocity of the top-seals
    - short stroke = high rpm. Together with the 1/5 gearing i have interesting rpm's. A propeller connected to the cilinder bank has efficiƫnt 1000 rpm while 5000 rpm at the crankshaft . Also for hybrids or generators, a 600 (1200) rpm cilinder bank is 3000 (6000) rpm crankshaft. Interesting rpms for electric AC motors.


    yes, all drawings are ready and I just started machining pieces.
     
  12. Mar 3, 2011 #12

    BillTodd

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    Quite a lot:

    The reciprocating mass of the Caminez engine (pistons roller etc.) is about twice the mass of the crank. Compare that to a typical car engine (remember only part of the con-rod's mass is reciprocating) .

    The main difference can be seen in the piston acceleration (sorry for the rough sketch ) The conventional crank is asymmetric (exaggerated here - caused by the reaction of the relatively short con-rod) The cam produces a triangular shape, very peaky at BDC (i.e. rapid reversal - watch the above animation closely) but smoother a TDC.

    piston acceleration.jpg
     
  13. Mar 3, 2011 #13

    frankydevaere

    frankydevaere

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    Of course, now i understand...

    Bill, are you the same Bill mentioned in http://www.aqpl43.dsl.pipex.com/MUSEUM/POWER/unusualICeng/cam-IC/cam-IC.htm ?
     
  14. Mar 3, 2011 #14

    BillTodd

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  15. Mar 3, 2011 #15

    frankydevaere

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    LOL ;D and well done :bow:
     
  16. Mar 3, 2011 #16

    BillTodd

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    BTW The idea of slowing the rotary valve to improve seal life was used successfully on Redrupt's (Bristol Bus) Axial 9 cylinder engine (the second time I've mentioned it this week ;) ). He arranged his valve to have multiple ports and slowed it to 1/8th of the crank's speed.

    Bill
     
  17. Mar 3, 2011 #17

    dieselpilot

    dieselpilot

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    Never thought too much about a cam engine. I see that the accel at TDC would be great simply due to the radius from crank center. This could be improved by increasing the overall diameter of the cam but that's hardly suitable for an airplane engine, or any engine for that matter.

    I think the most promising engine development today is the opposed piston engine by Ecomotors.

    That Italian motorcycle engine looks like if you kept the revs up you wouldn't have to put your feet down at a stop light. Czysz designed his racing engine to have no gyroscopic precession.
     
  18. Mar 3, 2011 #18

    frankydevaere

    frankydevaere

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    yes, i noticed that. I was lurking around on this forum before i became a member. More info to be found on the Redrupts' sealing ?
     
  19. Mar 3, 2011 #19

    BillTodd

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    The only info I have is in Bill Fairney's book , I'll re-read the chapter to see if there's anything that might be of interest.
     
  20. Mar 3, 2011 #20

    frankydevaere

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    Don't think so. 2-stroke piston springs will always scrape oil into the ports, not meeting emission regulations. Detroit two stroke diesels are no longer in production, i think. Junkers , Napier-Delta and Rootes were building such opposed piston engines.
    Long time ago at high school, i played with a two stroke opposed axial barrel engine ( system Redrup, Bill just mentioned ) invented by a Belgian. Much later i found on the internet that it existed already a couple of times.( like the WISHON ROTARY-VALVE AXIAL ENGINE )

    here it is : http://www.freepatentsonline.com/4391232.html

    yes, the Italian is probably a gyroscope
     

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