Why I'm here

[Cedge]

Before I begin, let me state that I enjoy this board and the level of talent found here is really quite staggering. I enjoy seeing all of the marvelous things that others have made and my list of wanna do's grows longer each day. However, there is an element missing which I also see growing larger, as this board grows.

Sharing what you build is wonderful, but not nearly as important as showing HOW you did it. As a relative newbie to machining, I struggle with things more experienced hands do by second nature. Having been an "expert" in other subjects, I had to learn that many of the things I did without thought were tricks those just learning were willing to kill their own grandmother to learn. The problem was that sometimes things became so naturally ingrained that I was not even aware of the fact that I was doing them.

We new guys are here to drink from the wealth of knowledge some of you guys possess, but not knowing what questions to ask makes it nearly impossible to request information on tricks and techniques. I'm not blaming anyone for this state of affairs, but I am requesting that each you search your bag of tricks and see if there aren't a few nice little ditties you've used so much that you figure everyone already knows them. Trust me... we don't...(grin)

We newbies are the next generation of this hobby and if all you old farts die before we know what you know, it dies with you. A high percentage of the members who lurk here are shy new guys who grab tidbits, even if they are too shy to post asking questions.

There have been some excellent tutorials resented on this board, but what I'm suggesting need not require a full blown lesson plan, just willingness to share and a clear description of what you do to get even simple procedures easily done. The complex stuff is always helpful even if it might be beyond our newbie hands at the present time.

Too much to ask of good friends?

Steve

 

[Oldmechthings]

OK Steve. I thought this is an "engine" forum so I have been reluctant to post much of any thing else, however I have a couple items stuffed somewhere up my sleeve that maybe I can get shook out and shared in the next few days. I do not know all the tricks, but enough to barely get by. Not that I'll have the answer, but do you have anything particular in mind? (just do not ask anything about computers, I'm terrible in that field)
Birk

 

[Powder keg]

There will be plenty of pictures on my LTD Stirling build:O) I always post my failures as well as my success. That way maybe someone can learn from my mistakes:O)

Wes

 

[Cedge]

Old Mech
The original idea for the board was to deal with engine builds with heavy emphasis on helping newbies gain a foothold. Two deadly sins we all agreed upon was "no one makes a newbie feel dumb" and no questions would ever be allowed the answer "Check the Archive before asking stupid questions".

This place has evolved into a thriving community with new friendships, buddies and sadly a couple of unneeded rivalries. In short, it's becoming a healthy board where people want to hang out. Much To our credit, the second deadly sin has never happened and the first is still considered sacred and practiced even by our newest members.

I'm not being critical of the forum, but pointing out that we newbies wanna play too...(grin). I have no particular questions at the moment, but you can bet I'll devour any usable tips, tricks, techniques and words of wisdom that "those who've gone before" are generous enough to share. You might correctly call it a nudge in the ribs to point things in a bit more educational direction. Don't stop showing us your engines... but when you do, think back and share the tale of that little twist you discovered which got you out from between the rock and the hard place. Every build one does will have one.

Steve

 

[mklotz]

Steve,

FWIW, I've documented some of my tips and tricks on our club website...

http://www.schsm.com/html/hints_and_tips.html

 

[BobWarfield]

Steve,

FWIW, I've documented some of my tips and tricks on our club website...

http://www.schsm.com/html/hints_and_tips.html

Some good ones. But shouldn't the allthread+nut tachometer be in the Safety section? ;D

Best,

BW

 

[shred]

I'm working on a "build in progress" of a small sterling fan I'm working on (consisting mostly of my mistakes and efforts to rectify them, which ought to provide considerable help in this regard ) but am looking for a good spot for it.. photos? plans? tips? Q&A? Seems like a dedicated sub-forum under 'building them' would be cool for that sort of thing.

(so the best cleverness so far in this project-- instead of fussing around precisely boring a blind hole exactly .950 deep, I made it about 1.0 and faced off the excess, then turned the outside profile)

 

[rake60]

I'm working on a "build in progress" of a small sterling fan I'm working on (consisting mostly of my mistakes and efforts to rectify them ) but am looking for a good spot for it.. photos? plans? tips? Q&A? Seems like a dedicated sub-forum under 'building them' would be cool for that sort of thing.

- Roy

Great Idea!
You have it now.
The board "A Work In Progress" has been added to the "Showing Them" Category.

Rick

 

[rake60]

OK Steve
Here's something I do without giving it any thought.

Scaling Jaws On a 4 Jaw Chuck.

I hate indicating.

My 4 jaw chuck is 7" at the O.D.
The jaws are 2.625" long from the outer edge to the inner edge.

To make a simple example call it a 1" part requiring a 1/8" throw.
7-1=6" --- 6-(2.625x2)=.75" ---- .75/2=.375"

So scaling the jaws from the O.D. to the back face of the jaw to 3/8"
will get the gripping surfaces close to being on center for a 1" part.

For the throw, back one jaw out 1/16" and at 180 degrees adjust that jaw
in 1/16" Place the part in the jaws and evenly adjust them in to snugly
grip the part.

NOW put the indicator on it for final adjustments.
You'll be surprised how close it is.

I'd much rather punch the keys of a calculator than spend my time looking
for the chuck key I'd just thrown across the shop....

Rick

 

[Powder keg]

When I went to school the First time to be a machinist. All of the lathes had a 4 jaw on them. This was to get you familiar with indicating stuff in. I would recommend this to everyone! A 3 jaw will make you lazy. (ask me how I know:O) Another thing they did was to knock the heads out every day on the Bridgeports. You would be surprised how quickly you get at indicating these in when you have to do it every day:O) After a while it becomes second nature.

Wes

 

[zeusrekning]

Steve this is where I may have helpfull info but I'm sure someone else knows a better way to do everything I can do so usually I keep quiet till asked. But, this is where guys like me need to get balls I guess, and post more useful info that we think can help and accept criticism and suggestions. I can be somewhat shy and usually will not input unless confident I am sure it will help. But that comes from the few forums I've been a member of. It was where you were scolded for not searching previous post, which always resulted in me searching and needing to ask questions from the poster who would no longer be a member.
I have had to overcome my "fear" of training people because of my job, but sometimes I still get uncomfortable because almost everyone I have to train or show how to do something is older than I am and I hate making someone feel I am belittling there intelligence . But I have learned to say "that will probably work but let me show you my way".
I think things out in a way that is my own and have a very hard time putting my thoughts and actions into words. Like this post, It usually involves me rambling on to try an get one point across
A great example is: I'm supposed to show Steve (Cedge) how to single point thread on his HLV. I've allready thought we should document the process, take some pics and maybe even some videos. But from talking to him a few times I'm allready amazed at his knowledge of machining. Never being a machinist I would still hire him over some of the 30year "toolmakers" I've met. (Never believe a resume.) I know I will have to relearn the SP threading myself. I know Steve is going to think I'm an idiot. But I'm still planning on doing what I can. Probably making a few follow up calls letting him know things I've forgotten to show him. But then after a few months of him threading on this lathe I am sure he will be able to show me a few pointers when he lets me come over and use it

O.K. By now I've forgotten my point. But I know it is hard for someone to explain there skill. It is a skill usually because it comes naturally. We should try though. We may actually develop a new skill by explaining what we do.

P.S. If someone could tell there methods for fighting impatience I might be able to finish some projects myself. It is getting better but too slowly.

 

[Cedge]

Rick
I like the way you think, but how about leading the parade and posting it in the tips area....(evil grin). It's only gonna get lost when this thread dies.

Marv
Rest assured you were the last person this thread was meant to spur a little guilt with. You shares ideas and such, well above and beyond the call of duty. Your personal generosity is part of the reason the board is my favorite hangout.

I was not putting anyone down with my comments, but a lot of new faces have been showing up who were not been privy to the early philosophical discussions of the forum. My point was that seeing great engines is loads of fun, but behind those pretty pictures are stories and tricks all of us, old hands included, can learn from. I'm just asking that those be shared along with the engines.

I've thought several times that it would be great to go back through the posts and dig out some of the marvelous tricks we've seen and put them all in the tips and tricks area. Unfortunately doing it properly would require an admin or a moderator and a good bit of time. Over time these jewels are going to become lost in a huge database of posts and will become nearly impossible to locate when wanted.

Some great examples of tips that are "somewhere on the board" are

Turning using pressure to hold the work piece
from Square plate to round flywheel
A jig for turning a crank shaft in a 3 jaw chuck
building a multi piece crank
Plexiglass sacrificial surface
applying smoke to solder work
lots of soldering tips
double sided tape tricks
superglue uses
Loctite..... blue red and green
an eccentric using a 3 jaw.
easy work centering tricks
tools tools and even some tools

The list goes on... hopefully growing ever larger as more "old hands" join us. Not to mention that I still owe the board a tutorial on making my multi-piece flywheel, come warm weather. I can't ask others to share if I'm not willing to do it myself.

Steve

 

[Lew Hartswick]

Quite often in addition to HOW you did something it would be very helpful if
WHY it was done that way was included. This is one of my complaints with a
lot of magazine articles.
...lew...

 

[mklotz]

Zeus... wrote:

P.S. If someone could tell there methods for fighting impatience I might be able to finish some projects myself. It is getting better but too slowly.

I suspect that's a serious problem for many of us - especially me. Here are some tricks I use.

Treat every part of an engine as a project in its own right. When it's finished, toss it in the project box and forget about it. Next time make another part. Your immediate job is to fill the parts box with parts. When you finish that 'project', you can go on to your next project which is assembling the parts in the box into something useful.

Mentally plan what you intend to accomplish during each shop session. Be realistic and plan something you think you can finish in less time than you have available. The trick here is to leave the shop with some sort of sense of accomplishment to boost your enthusiasm. If you finish early, use the extra time to do some small task (e.g., put tools away, sharpen tools, etc.) to further bolster your sense of accomplishment. If Murphy visits and you can't finish your planned task, stop early and do some small tasks anyway so you can go away feeling that you got something done.

If you screw up a part, don't attempt to remake it the same day. This is just an invitation to screwing up twice in one day - a sure enthusiasm killer. Do something else simple that you know you won't screw up and remake the botched part tomorrow.

Pay special attention to tasks you don't like or feel uncomfortable with - most especially if those tasks are central to doing good work. If you go out of your way to avoid using the 4jaw or will do anything to avoid doing shop mathematics, set aside a block of (shop) time and practice that activity until you feel at least a bit comfortable and then force yourself to use that burgeoning skill 'in anger' on real work until you've integrated it into your repertoire of shop skill.

A very large part of this hobby (and many other technical crafts) is psychological. You need to pay attention to how your mind works and design your activities around your own mentality. Nobody can teach you discipline or patience. Like learning to file or scrape, you need to puzzle out what works for you. That means trying different techniques, rewards, procedures until something clicks.

 

[mklotz]

The psychology of machining and the learning thereof, especially for novitiates, is a complex but fascinating subject.

One thing I've noticed (via the medium of our local club members) is that folks tend to ignore proffered tips and tricks unless they have an immediate problem to hand where the tip would help them.

Newbies should recognize that ALL the tips they garner here will become useful to them as their skills and the scope of their projects grow.

The third most important tool in your shop, after your mike and your scientific calculator, is your shop notebook. Just as you might keep a notebook if taking an academic class, keep a notebook for the tidbits you learn peripherally while reading the posts on this and other fora. Whether you cut and paste into a computer file or actually write in a paper notebook, it's important to get into the habit of filing away information for your future use. Furthermore, this gives you the opportunity to organize this scattered information in a way that agrees with the way your mind works (see my previous post above about watching how your mind works). The only filing system that will work for you is the one you develop yourself. Others can offer suggestions but, ultimately, this is something you must work out for yourself. It's sort of like shop organization - only you can do it right for you.

==================================================================================

Random Hint for Your Notebook

If you're going to check a micrometer for accuracy, it's important to use a set of gage blocks that cause the spindle to seat at different orientations so drunken thread errors will be noticed. The preferred set for inch micrometers is: 0.105, 0.210, 0.315, 0.420, 0.500, 0.605, 0.710, 0.815, 0.920, 1.000. For metric micrometers the preferred set is: 3.1, 6.5, 9.7, 12.5, 15.8, 19.0, 21.9, 25.0.

 

[Bernd]

Boy Zeus hit the nail on the head. I seem to have the same problem. But low and behold Marv comes up with an answer that I was gone try on my own with my next project. Do each part as it's own individual project and put in a box. Make another part, add to box until all parts are made. Send to assembly floor..... ??? Were am I going here. Hey that's how it was done were I worked at one time for 30 years. :.

And I have a few ideas that I want to add for beginners in the Hints & Tips forum.

Thanks Marv.
Bernd