What mill??

[13AL]

First let me say I don't have a milling machine, but one will be added to the shop in the future, uh...for work
If you needed a mill for repair work not production and for this type of hobby......
and lets say you need a machine larger than the mini-mill......
and had to buy new.....
what would you look for??
I am not asking for brand names necesaraly but features??
I have seen a mill that looks like the mini only larger and a more industrial looking mill for about the same cost??
Let me point out that local support = 0
so any advice would help
Thanks, 13AL

 

[Cedge]

13AL
I recently bought the mill I believe you are referring too.
The Sieg Super X3 can be seen here:
http://www.grizzly.com/products/G0619

It's somewhat lesser equipped sister can be seen here:
http://grizzly.com/products/Mill-Drill/G0463

So far, it's proving to be quite a step up from the mini mill I'd been using. I'm not at all unhappy with it, although I've only used it a little. Much nicer fit and finish than the smaller machine.

I bought mine on sale from the local Travers Tool showroom but would recommend Grizzly for their better documentation, longer warranty and higher ability to offer support after the sale. Nothing wrong with Travers except that they are new to the Chinese iron and it appears they haven't quite gotten past the communications hump when dealing with China.

Steve

 

[DICKEYBIRD]

I have the "regular" Grizz G0463 (Sieg X3) and really like it.
I hear great things about the larger Industrial Hobbies mill and the Bridgy clones but they're considerably more expensive.

Whatever you choose, I'd say get on with it as some folks that are "in the know" say a substantial price increase for Chinese machines is coming soon. Soon after the SX3 became readily available at Grizzly, the X3 I paid $950 + shipping for went on sale for $895 + shipping. That was a great deal but now they've gone back up.

Happy milling!
Milton

 

[Alphawolf45]

A full sized kneemill from grizzly is only about $4000.00..Borrow the money if you dont have it , it's well worth it ..Itd last you all the rest of your life..You would not outgrow it. It gives you nod and tilt and can crank the head out on the ram and rotate it over the side for really tough jobs like drilling or milling into end of steel shaft held vertically off side of the table..Lots of power in durable package..
.
If we were talking motorcycles nobody would want a small machine but in metalsworking - I guess there isnt the same committment but lot of guys tout the small stuff...I rather buy machines that would be at home in a professional shop because I am thoroughly committed to metalsworking hobby for the rest of my life....And the big chinese machines is still cheap hobby if you compare it to bass fishing and some other hobbies.......like my wife boards a pair of horses 10 miles down the road at a cost of $500.00 every month - I could have couple more nice machines if it werent for her hobbies.Hehhehhehhe

 

[zeusrekning]

I agree with you Alpha.

 

[Jadecy]

I bought my full size (circa 1970 or so) Bridgeport knee mill for $1,500. The table is a little rough but it is true and flat. I run it with a VFD (variable frequency drive) (ie. converts 220 single phase to 3 phase). Total cost installed and running came to $2,200. That was with delivery of the mill. The guy selling it moved it with a pickup truck and we unloaded with an engine hoist from HF.

I would not trade that mill for anything except a newer cleaner Bridgport....maybe.

If you have the room get a full size knee mill. If you are uncomfortable with older machines get the Griz full size as suggested above. You will not regret it!

 

[Cedge]

All good advice if the old hobby budget will withstand the machine purchase price and the cost of a VFD and the required new wiring. If we could all justify heavy amercican iron we'd all own heavy american iron. 13AL.... don't let the"you aint crap if you ain't running big iron" crowd make your choices for you, especially when only you know what your restricting criteria is. Borrowing money to enjoy the hobby is probably the last thing I'd advise anyone.

same tired chant over and over...
Steve

 

[Alphawolf45]

don't let the"you aint crap if you ain't running big iron" crowd make your choices for you, especially when only you know what your restricting criteria is

.
That isnt it at all..I am just sharing the enthusiasm for metalsworking and offering advice just like you did..The only difference is one of scale..I am saying that if you have a choice pick the fullsized machines...I telling my opinion as if we were friends- as I have advised my friends..

 

[zeusrekning]

I was hoping Steve would chime in. I consider myself an American iron guy. I was trained up on Bridgeport mills so I have a bias. BUT... After Steve bought his new Super X3 mill my opinion is changing. He paid around the same for a brand new machine as what I would pay for a 30-40 year old machine and his has some really nice features. He also said it required very little tweaking out of the box where as an older mill will more than likely need alot.
I am in the machining industry so it is a little easier for me to find good deals on old mills :big: . And alot of my intended future projects are too large for the small mills. With this being said I am still leaning towards a bridgeport style machine in the future. But look at what size parts you are planning on doing. If it is only the occasional larger part, Buy a small one and find a friend with a large mil

PS
I also think the small mills are finicky as to where you can put small c-clamps :big:

Tim

 

[Mcgyver]

you'll get as many opinions as you get replies, here's mine. Go as big as you possibly can, and then bigger - I've had never heard anyone whine about their mill being too robust. You get way more value with old iron, but you may not live in a part of the world where much is available and you have be a bit savvy to check them out +} it takes time. bport or others like XLO or Wells (many consider them better than bports)......and don't rush in, it takes a bit of networking and time to get a great old machine but if you're really looking, serendipity kicks in If that's not possible next up would a Taiwan made full size mill, but the dollars get bigger.

 

[rake60]

I'll interject my personal opinion.

When it comes to home machine tools, buy the biggest you can within your
home machine shop budget.

Before you even set out to look at one of any size think about what you actually
expect to do with it. Will the cost of it interfer with anything else that could be
needed?

At work I use a Bridgeport and OKK mill for small work.
At home I use an import mini-mill.
I've often thought about just how that Bridgeport would handle a 1/16" endmill,
and HOW would I hold a 1/2 X 3/4" block of brass in that 6" Kurt Vise??

Truth is no one can effectively answer your question.
We can all offer our personal opinions, but what it comes down to in the end
is what do YOU expect from the machine?

It's kind of like buying clothes for your wife.
Your better off to just give her the money because your choices won't suit!

Rick

 

[zeusrekning]

Yeah it's like asking a group of people , "Honda, or Harley?". Figure out your space limitations, buget, and size of work you are planning on doing. Then find a machine that falls into these criteria. After you have narrowed it down ask for any opinions on the specific models or features you are looking at.
I have noticed it is easy to say if I spend a couple hundred more dollars I can get this, and eventually you're convincing the wife to let you buy a CNC mill.

 

[Brass_Machine]

Tools (for the most part) can be a very personal choice, just as much as a car or motorcycle. From the big stuff (American iron vs import) all the way down to the hand tools (Craftsman, Husky, Snap-on etc).

Everyone here can give you their opinion. They can also tell you what works for them. But that is just it... it is what works for them. And we know, what works for one person may not work for another.

You have to consider the obvious:

1) Budget
2) Space for the machine
3) Included tooling (some used machines may come with some goodies)
4) How much work you want to put into it before you can use it
5) Size of the stuff you are working on
6) Electrical (doesn't do much to get a 3phase machine if you only have 110)

I can tell you my experience. I ended up buying a mini mill (X2). I do not regret buying it one bit. It is actually quite a capable little machine (after a lot of tweeking and modifying). HOWEVER, if I were to do it again... I would save my pennies a little while longer and buy something a long the lines of the IH mill.

But, that is what would work for me.

Eric

 

[Seanol]

13al,
Just to add one more opinion.
I have a Grizzly 3103 6x26 knee mill. I like it for the parts I make and at the time I could not find any good "old iron". I am in the process of making the Radial 5 byRudy Kouhoupts. Other parts have been spacers and other objects in the 4" to 8" size all in steel.

Alot of sellers think that if it has a brand name it is worth a mint even if there is severe backlash and a gouged and rusted table.

Here in the Northeast there are many options for Bridgeports and the like for reasonable money. Out west was a different story. I have had good luck with craigslist for searching.

The Grizzly has gone up in price but it will be a new mill. You will have to work on it to get the last bit out of it but mine was very close out of the box. Shipped I paid $2500 to my house in Nevada.

The only modifications I have made so far are adding 1.5 inches in the Y and modifying the leadscrew nuts for better adjustability in x and y. You will give up some in Z height but a riser will fix that.

Just one more option for you to agonize over ;D
Good luck in your search,
Sean

 

[Cedge]

Alpha
No personal offense was meant by my comments. In a perfect world we'd all own a nice heavy BP. I'm all too aware of the constraints of smaller machines, but there is a significant segment of the community that has to bow to real world limitations of price, ability to do repairs, available space and power requirements along with a host of other lesser considerations. The subject has gotten quite contentious on this board before.

I'm watching for a good buy on a Hardinge HLV lathe, but I'm still not sold on the idea of doing repairs to one or even the added expense of running new power connections and a phase converter or VFD. I'm also still debating whether the space required will be something I'm willing to give up to find one a home.

It's great if one can swing big iron, but big iron is only one way to enjoy the hobby. Those of us running lesser machines are having just as much fun and quite often are producing as good or better end products than some of the big iron operators. We can appreciate the desire to steer a new buyer higher, but keep in mind that many simple can't justify going full monty, for any number of of reasons.


Steve

 

[13AL]

Thank you all for the great opinions, I thought maybe I was approching this with tunnel vision and you proved that!
I had to research "knee mill" :-[ got it now!
I have also done a little research about the power supply

13AL