Trying out metric
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John, you didn't highlight where that rule was made. So much for home grown US being better than everyone else's in the world.
As was stated before, this subject rears it's ugly head every few months, and the same arguments abound every time.
It all boils down to just one thing. Eventually the people of the US, the last major bastion of imperial measurement, will start to lose massive overseas sales because of the 'we are the greatest and everyone should follow us' attitude. Unfortunately, the trading world doesn't look at it the same as you as individuals do.
The world is changing, and the US are going thru what the UK went thru in the last century, when our 'Empire' started to break apart. Luckily, most of our splits were amiable, and can we still trade easily between each other.
Who you used to deal with are now forming together to have their own trading empires, mainly the far east and Europe, now very much larger than the US 'empire' is, and of course, those two are now trading very easily between themselves, using the metric system of measurement.
The attitude of 'this is what we use and you will have to take it or leave it' is not the way in this modern world. Your stubborness just might just force most of the other world traders to just leave it, and you will be isolated in the world of commerce.
There is a lot more than just debating what is the best for you to use, your debate should be, 'How will I cope when we have to go over to metrication', because no matter what you say here, in the next few years, the Imperial dinosaur will have to be sorted in the US, otherwise you will find yourselves getting even more isolated as a world producer.
I think a lot of your manufacturing is already producing metric, but the general population also have to take hold of it as well, otherwise you will find that one will fight the other. Where are the manufacturers to get the workforce from if the kids are still taught imperial instead of metric?
You might even find it appearing on your job interview. "Can you work in metric?" "No", "Then very sorry, we can't use you".
We had to do it in the UK, and the same sorts of arguments came out then from our side. It is only us diehard model engineers that still use imperial, because we have to, everywhere else uses metric.
It took a long time to get fully assimilated, but now we have 'gone' over, we are back in the fold, and stand a much better chance on the manufacturing side when the world starts to think straight again, rather than beating each other up.
Sitting on your ar**s and saying 'I will not be moved' will only cause you more grief in the long run.
Just try to come into the real world for once, and look about you. Attempt to embrace a little of the metric system, and at least then, you won't have too much of a struggle when the inevitable happens, and as sure as the sun rises in the morning, it will happen at some time in your future, maybe sooner than you think.
Just another way of looking at things.
Blogs
As was stated before, this subject rears it's ugly head every few months, and the same arguments abound every time.
It all boils down to just one thing. Eventually the people of the US, the last major bastion of imperial measurement, will start to lose massive overseas sales because of the 'we are the greatest and everyone should follow us' attitude. Unfortunately, the trading world doesn't look at it the same as you as individuals do.
The world is changing, and the US are going thru what the UK went thru in the last century, when our 'Empire' started to break apart. Luckily, most of our splits were amiable, and can we still trade easily between each other.
Who you used to deal with are now forming together to have their own trading empires, mainly the far east and Europe, now very much larger than the US 'empire' is, and of course, those two are now trading very easily between themselves, using the metric system of measurement.
The attitude of 'this is what we use and you will have to take it or leave it' is not the way in this modern world. Your stubborness just might just force most of the other world traders to just leave it, and you will be isolated in the world of commerce.
There is a lot more than just debating what is the best for you to use, your debate should be, 'How will I cope when we have to go over to metrication', because no matter what you say here, in the next few years, the Imperial dinosaur will have to be sorted in the US, otherwise you will find yourselves getting even more isolated as a world producer.
I think a lot of your manufacturing is already producing metric, but the general population also have to take hold of it as well, otherwise you will find that one will fight the other. Where are the manufacturers to get the workforce from if the kids are still taught imperial instead of metric?
You might even find it appearing on your job interview. "Can you work in metric?" "No", "Then very sorry, we can't use you".
We had to do it in the UK, and the same sorts of arguments came out then from our side. It is only us diehard model engineers that still use imperial, because we have to, everywhere else uses metric.
It took a long time to get fully assimilated, but now we have 'gone' over, we are back in the fold, and stand a much better chance on the manufacturing side when the world starts to think straight again, rather than beating each other up.
Sitting on your ar**s and saying 'I will not be moved' will only cause you more grief in the long run.
Just try to come into the real world for once, and look about you. Attempt to embrace a little of the metric system, and at least then, you won't have too much of a struggle when the inevitable happens, and as sure as the sun rises in the morning, it will happen at some time in your future, maybe sooner than you think.
Just another way of looking at things.
Blogs
Maryak
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Last time we were in the UK, (2004), the speed was mph and road distances were in miles as were distances on the road maps we bought. One even said, "Scale of street plans 4" to 1 mile unless otherwise stated." 
Interesting.
Best Regards
Bob
Interesting.
Best Regards
Bob
ToniTD1490
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I like this discussion, Metric against Imperial, advantages disadvantages, ... But what's is a Pint?
a. 1/8 gallon or 16 ounces (0.473 liter). (liquide) US
b. 1/16 peck or 1/2 quart (0.551 liter). (dry measure) US
c. equal to 0.568 liter. (dry and liquid measure) British.
Someday will we be unified happily with only one system?
Someday ...
ToniTD1490
a. 1/8 gallon or 16 ounces (0.473 liter). (liquide) US
b. 1/16 peck or 1/2 quart (0.551 liter). (dry measure) US
c. equal to 0.568 liter. (dry and liquid measure) British.
Someday will we be unified happily with only one system?
Someday ...
ToniTD1490
Maryak said:Last time we were in the UK, (2004), the speed was mph and road distances were in miles as were distances on the road maps we bought. One even said, "Scale of street plans 4" to 1 mile unless otherwise stated."
Interesting.
Best Regards
Bob
The reason behind this is capitalism, note no Z,
We had to make the change to metric in the 1970 by law, this included things like tools, scales etc being changed over BUT the cost was borne by the owners / users.
Because a change from miles to Km and even a swap to RH drive to match Europe ? will have to be borne by the government, road signs etc, training etc we have exemption from the EU :bow:
If the road system was in private hands they would have forced the change years ago.
John S.
Dan Rowe
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The discusion about the merits of metric over imperial have been going on for well over 100 years, this made me think about the problem another way. I looked around the shop on a ship to try and find examples of things that would never be converted to metric. The ships I worked on were built in Japan with Swiss engines and English toilets. The Swiss engine had Whitworth threads.
I thought of two items that I doubt will ever go metric, one of them is very common and anyone reading this will have an example in the shop, the other is not very common but it might be interesting to members of this forum.
I will let everone think about this before I give my answers because I think there must be more stuff I just can not come up with them.
Dan
I thought of two items that I doubt will ever go metric, one of them is very common and anyone reading this will have an example in the shop, the other is not very common but it might be interesting to members of this forum.
I will let everone think about this before I give my answers because I think there must be more stuff I just can not come up with them.
Dan
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Hi all,
I've been away for a couple of days, and am just catching up. I love debates about metric vs imperial units!
I must recall several years ago a professor had us all re-calibrate out known worlds in terms of the accepted mass of the earth (mass), the time of a solar year (time), and the mean distance from the earth to the sun (length). We altered all of the commonly accepted units for many engineering constants, and thoroughly thought through (how's that for 'imperialism'!) what it all meant. I now have no misconceptions about units, as they are just various names for common things. As has been mentioned by several contributors, the distance between any two points is just a distance, regardless of what you call that distance. To a martian, it may be neither imperial or metric. I personally now prefer metric, despite having been brought up on imperial stuff, but if you prefer imperial, go for it! These days, its mostly just a click on a digital caliper button to change from one to the other.
Someone mentioned cm and other 'metric' units. It is my understanding that metric systems prefer base units (kg metre second) and multiples or sub-multiples in terms of 10 to the power 3,6,9,... or to the power -3,-6,-9,...
Debate on, this is fun!
Regards, Ian.
I've been away for a couple of days, and am just catching up. I love debates about metric vs imperial units!
I must recall several years ago a professor had us all re-calibrate out known worlds in terms of the accepted mass of the earth (mass), the time of a solar year (time), and the mean distance from the earth to the sun (length). We altered all of the commonly accepted units for many engineering constants, and thoroughly thought through (how's that for 'imperialism'!) what it all meant. I now have no misconceptions about units, as they are just various names for common things. As has been mentioned by several contributors, the distance between any two points is just a distance, regardless of what you call that distance. To a martian, it may be neither imperial or metric. I personally now prefer metric, despite having been brought up on imperial stuff, but if you prefer imperial, go for it! These days, its mostly just a click on a digital caliper button to change from one to the other.
Someone mentioned cm and other 'metric' units. It is my understanding that metric systems prefer base units (kg metre second) and multiples or sub-multiples in terms of 10 to the power 3,6,9,... or to the power -3,-6,-9,...
Debate on, this is fun!
Regards, Ian.
[pedant pedant]
I just saw this, and I need to say that irrational means that you cannot write it as a rational expression, i.e. a/b where a and b are whole numbers. So 1/25.4 is rational since it can be written as 10/254. An example of a number that is irrational is the square root of 2.
[/pedant pedant]
Sorry about this, but you put it in pedant mode ;D
mklotz said:
I just saw this, and I need to say that irrational means that you cannot write it as a rational expression, i.e. a/b where a and b are whole numbers. So 1/25.4 is rational since it can be written as 10/254. An example of a number that is irrational is the square root of 2.
[/pedant pedant]
Sorry about this, but you put it in pedant mode ;D
Loose nut said:
Unified will not work, after the debacle of WWII America tried to force a change on the world with screw threads, mainly fuelled by the automotive industry that at that time owned or had fingers in most pies.
The UK, Europe and I think Australia were forced to adopt UN threads, as the ties got broken form corporate America so did the use of unified threads.
Because we lost our threads in the change over it was easier for us to adapt to the new Metrics that came into prominence.
Now only the US uses Unified threads, the rest of the world uses metric, eventually if the manufacturers, mainly in the far east, decide to only make a part,/ machine with metric threads what will happen? will you refuse to buy it ?
The rot has already started, you can now buy off the shelf R8 tooling with M12 drawbar threads instead of that bastard of a size, 7/16" UNF
I know this is of no concern to people with their own tooling but you have to look at next weeks sales and the next generation of owners.
John S.
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Hi all, ans John S in particular,
It is my understanding that Australia was never forced, or otherwise, to accept UNC and UNF threads, They exist, in Australia, as just another odd thread that serves no other purpose than to confuse people who encounter them. Whatever their merits, they are not in common usage in Australia.
Regards, Ian.
It is my understanding that Australia was never forced, or otherwise, to accept UNC and UNF threads, They exist, in Australia, as just another odd thread that serves no other purpose than to confuse people who encounter them. Whatever their merits, they are not in common usage in Australia.
Regards, Ian.
I am happy with both but the big advantage in metric is the relationship between size-weight-volume-displacement-pressure
1000mm x 1000mm x 1000mm (cubic metre) = 1000 ltrs = 1000 kilos = 1 tonne
Or 100mm x 100mm x 100mm = 1000milli ltrs = 1 litre
10mts head of water = 1bar
Bb
1000mm x 1000mm x 1000mm (cubic metre) = 1000 ltrs = 1000 kilos = 1 tonne
Or 100mm x 100mm x 100mm = 1000milli ltrs = 1 litre
10mts head of water = 1bar
Bb
Dan Rowe
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As I mentioned the ships I worked on were a real mix of thread standards. The uncommon thing I mentioned is a thread standard..... only I have no idea what standard. The indicator cock of a modern diesel engine has the same thread as was used in steam engine days. The engine indicator was invented by James Watt and I have to assume that the thread came from his shop which predates Whitworth threads. The thread size is 1.0625"-10TPI. This is the oldest thread standard that I have ever encountered that is still in modern production world wide.
As this is really an instrument thread there have to be other technical items with obsolete thread standards still in use such as cameras. For those who play darts the threads are BA on dart bodes world wide.
Now for the common item.... the ratchet in your shop has a 1/2", 3/8", or 1/4" drive. It does not matter what country you are located in. The sockets in my tool box match the rachet in your tool box and that fact is not likely to change in the near future.
Dan
As this is really an instrument thread there have to be other technical items with obsolete thread standards still in use such as cameras. For those who play darts the threads are BA on dart bodes world wide.
Now for the common item.... the ratchet in your shop has a 1/2", 3/8", or 1/4" drive. It does not matter what country you are located in. The sockets in my tool box match the rachet in your tool box and that fact is not likely to change in the near future.
Dan
Many light fixtures have threads that date back to gaslamp fittings. The CNC machines that make nearly everything these days can work in whatever units you choose. The "tyranny of the leadscrew" is done.Dan Rowe said:
As others have said, the distance, weight, whatever is what it is and what you call it doesn't make that much difference, they'll just print both measures on the box. Go look up plumbing pipe or lumber-- even though it's called 1/2" or 2x4, nothing about it measures 1/2" or 2" or 4".
I work in an industry that sells millions of units of high tech electronics all over the world-- everything is designed in metric and the legacy imperial stuff like connectors just have odd metric dimensions applied to them. In the US, they reconvert weights and measures back into imperial "14-inch screen size!" and drive on. The engineer in China trying to get the weight of the product under 907.18 grams may or may not know why, but it's what they do.
The annoying bit is for the hobbyists that don't have the resources to build that way.
Maryak
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Tel,
You got it. :bow:
I have 3 separate tool boxes of spanners, one with Whitworth spanners and sockets, one with AF spanners and sockets and one with metric.
Go look at the job then back to the shop to return with the appropriate tool box.
I even have metric and imperial hammers but that's due to their age not their usefulness. ;D ( Bloody things don't float :).
Best Regards
Bob
You got it. :bow:
I have 3 separate tool boxes of spanners, one with Whitworth spanners and sockets, one with AF spanners and sockets and one with metric.
Go look at the job then back to the shop to return with the appropriate tool box.
I even have metric and imperial hammers but that's due to their age not their usefulness. ;D ( Bloody things don't float :
).Best Regards
Bob
