Too much safety

[1Kenny]

It has been brought to my attention that we at HMEM are over pushing safety. To any members that think we are, I say Thank You for noticing. I am thrilled that the safety area is as active as it is and hope that it stays that way.

I am interested in everyones thoughts about too much safety.

Thanks,

Kenny

 

[Tin Falcon]

there is almost no such thing as too much safety . There are some limits we should not be afraid to try new things and we need to be making chips and model parts or why are we here. Safety is a state of mind akin to newton law of physics that for every action there is a reaction.
we need to think about the results of our actions or inactions.
a loose part in a chuck can fly out.If we grab sharp metal it can cut. hot metal will burn. Spilled oil is a tripping hazard etc.
we need to double check out setups if in doubt . And observe our surroundings. In the home shop we are in charge of operational risk management .
Safety first Safety always injuries last.
Tin

 

[Cedge]

You're kidding... I hope. Sounds as if we need to give this guy an extra entry or two in his profile.... for his wife's name and her favorite flowers. The poor widow, she'll be needing a wee bit of comforting, when his number comes up.... doncha know. The Darwin awards are always looking for fresh new nominees.

Steve

 

[mklotz]

It's worth repeating safety warnings again and again WHERE THEY ARE APPROPRIATE. Even more important is pointing out the safety concerns that aren't immediately apparent. An example of that might be telling someone to ensure that the grinder rest is as close to the wheel as possible so the object being ground can't be sucked into the space between the rest and the grinding wheel. There are numerous other examples but that gives you the idea of what I'm talking about.

What I find annoying are the gratuitous warnings by the safety nannies. These are the people who, if I say I'm going to solder something with a propane torch, immediately launch into warnings about how I must be careful not to burn myself with the torch. I haven't seen much of this on this BBS but I've seen plenty of it elsewhere. Most of the people here seem to have good common sense and know when and with whom a safety reminder is needed.

A further note... Criticizing what contributors write, be it safety or otherwise, should be discouraged. Many of us don't need lesson after lesson on how to single point thread but that's not a reason for criticizing yet another post trying to help someone who is learning it for the first time. Also, remember that we have many lurkers and folks who haven't read the whole body of posts already made. We have something of a responsibility to ensure that every thread covers the critical material they may not have read, even if such coverage repeats material that the long-time members have seen before.

 

[rake60]

I don't believe there could ever be such a thing as too much safety.

If you work for a machine shop, OSHA sets and enforces strict safety
guidelines for the operation and guarding of machine tools.
If you intentionally break the rules the employer may give you
an unpaid 3 day vacation to think about it. If an OSHA Inspector happens
to make a supprise visit and sees the act before the employer they can
fine the company $Thoushands$. In that case your unpaid vacation my
be permanent.

Neither of those scenarios are there to take money away from you or make
your job more difficult. They are there to force safe practices on people who
may not have the comman sense to understand those facts on their own.
In the past 30 years I have never been written up for any safety violations.
And yet, I've had a tally of 47 stitches, 3 broken fingers, a broken right arm
and one finger that is about 1/4" shorter than it should be.
Working with machine tools is a hazard in it's self.

In a home shop there are no Federal Agency's stopping in to be sure you are
operating the machines in a safe manner.
That is entirely up to you!

Safety IS the #1 issue!

Rick

 

[shred]

I get irritated with some of the more bizzare OSHA rules at my workplace (mostly an office kinda place) but, behind every one of them is a serious injury to somebody. Kinda scary to think about. I managed to end-mill the tip of a finger doing something I thought was OK long ago.. oops.. luckily the mill was almost stopped and my finger and nail grew back, but it's a huge wake up call.

IMO, Safety advice should be "here's how to do that safely", not "OMG! you'll kill yourself, don't do it!".

 

[tmuir]

I have no problems with anyone posting a safety tip.
It only takes me a few seconds to read and if it saves me from hurting myself or someone else it was worth reading and if I knew the tip already it's only costs me a few seconds to read.

Technically, sitting in my climate controlled office at work I am supposed to read and sign off on several JSAs before I even sit down at my desk to turn on my PC. That kind of OHS I find annoying but genuine points that could save me from harm with machineary I'm all for people telling me those.

 

[itowbig]

well speaking from a newbe here i like that somebody says something cause then i read it & then when i go to my machines i think about what could happen. if its in the mind you will use it.
i say thank you for all the safty warnings, tips ect

 

[Circlip]

Obviously whoever posted to Kenny has never seen a grinding wheel burst or something go between a milling cutter and the job and not stop? It would also be interesting to know which side of the pond this guy comes from. Sad to state, some aspects of common sense have been eroded by the "blame and claim" culture which is a direct result of western TV programmes. A couple of prime examples that spring to mind are "I was given the wrong type of ladder" and "When I went into work I didn't notice the floor was wet"
Having said that, I've jumped in on a couple of postings on here that due to the Pickies show bad practice to newbies. We shouldn't need to state the obvious but one or two practices could be overlooked at the expense of a "Situation" occurring.
Regards,with no excuse for pointing out safety issues, Ian.

Edit, I just had a look at the plans for the new team build, and notice Elmer was also a "Nanny", Post on bottom of last page- Safety instructions? Don't know when this book was originally written, but HE obviously though common sense needed pointing out.
Good on yer Elmer.

 

[1Kenny]

I want to thank you guys for the supportive responces. I too put safety as job 1. Long ago I lost a young mechanic that felt he was going to be late for work and be in trouble. He was speeding to get to work, hit a car and his head was decapitated. It made me so sick that I couldn't eat for several days. Being safe is the most important thing we do, everything else will fall in place. Not being safe effects everyone around you.

Kenny

 

[chuck foster]

accidents happen so fast, and some are just unforeseen.

about 8 years ago my uncle was putting air and a small front tire off of his 8 h.p. riding tractor. nothing unusual about that now is there?
probably everyone here has done this sort of thing and not though much of it.
he took the tire and rim assembly off the tractor and went to the locale garage to inflate it.
well the tire blew off the rim and sent the rim upwards so fast and so quick it hit him on the underside of the chin and broke his neck......killing him instantly.
now i know some are going to say it was a one in a million chance that this happened or they might say some other thing that is very easy to say after the fact. end result is my uncle is dead and my aunt is a widow at the age of 50

i guess what I'm trying to say is you can never be too safe.

now i will get off my soup box and stop preaching.

chuck

 

[Bogstandard]

Chuck,

That is most probably more than a one in a million chance, but it is happening all over the world every day. Thousands upon thousands every day. By these statistics most people know someone somewhere who has had a bad accident.

Common sense is usually left in bed when people get up and go to work. Make sure you wake it up and take it with you.

John

 

[JohnS]

One of the problems affecting people's attitudes towards health and safety is the over zealous actions of certain 'elf & safety' perpetrators. Like, for example, a chinese restaurant I know of who can now no longer provide toothpicks in case customers hurt themselves. What is a serious life and death issue is being turned into a national joke and the media are full of similar crazy stories.

I do care about my own safety, for my sake and for my family. I have bought a pair of decent prescription safety glasses - and use them . I never wear loose clothing and, thanks to a tip I read on this site, I never have cleaning rags anywhere near my lathe or mill using paper towels which tear if caught in rotating machinery.

John S

 

[wareagle]

Too much safety????? Makes about as much sense to me as having too much money!

Whom ever brought this topic up hasn't ever had to tell someone's loved one that he/she is gone. Or seen someone who has had an extremity pulled of by a machine, had a foreign object in their eye, etc. Face it, the stuff we do for a hobby is potentially deadly! If one doesn't want to face that fact, then please take up another form of entertainment. Collect baseball cards instead!

But, no matter how redundant, no matter how silly, no matter how routine, always keep safety in mind and act on anything that seems to be a risk. Safety is an attitude. Safety is a culture. Safety is your partner. Safety is a life saver. Always take safety with you in the shop, or anything else that you are doing (including card collecting).

As far as having safety comments in threads, let them be. The mundane comment regarding saftey in a thread about drilling a simple hole just might keep someone out there from getting injured, and that person could easily be one of the many people who haven't joined this community. Maybe that person is a father of two young kids and the sole provider of the family. Or maybe that person is your loved one....

Learn from the mistakes of others; you'll never live long enough to make them all yourself.

 

[mklotz]

I would like to see more of the "that never occurred to me" safety warnings - stuff that isn't that obvious even if you do think hard about safety.

I read somewhere of a fellow who set a can of spray paint on his welding table and, somehow, when he started welding, the ground path went through the can heating it to the point where it exploded. Frankly, not being a welder, I don't understand how this would work but that's what was reported. Perhaps the story is apocryphal.

My own story involves a plastic gas container - the kind used to store a couple of gallons for a lawn mower or whatever. It was always in the way in my tiny shop so I shoved it in the back under the workbench. Sometime later, forgetting it was there, I shoved a box of metal scraps under the bench. Unknown to me, a piece of angle pierced the plastic. That evening, when I went to get the car out of the garage I (very fortunately) noticed the odor and the puddle. Thank goodness our (gas-fired) water heater is on a slab outside and not in the garage. I no longer mow grass nor store gasoline in the garage.

Then there's the matter of earthquakes. If you live anywhere in California (or other quake-prone locations), go out in your shop and imagine it shaking with a peak-to-peak amplitude of six inches. What's going to fall on what to cause something really unpleasant to happen? Those of you who don't live in quake country should check your shop for stuff on the floor that you wouldn't like to fall on. Leave impalement to the Roumanians.

 

[Bogstandard]

You will notice I haven't done any posts about my shop in the last couple of days, and Marv's post has just brought it to the fore.

While moving the machinery out of my shop on Monday, somehow a gallon can of cellulose thinners got a minute puncture in it.

Very early on Tuesday morning, while having my coffee outside, Bandit the hound scratched on the locked shop door to be let in, his usual habit. He has to make sure their are no spiders or crawlies in there that might get me. So I duly unlocked the door, and the fumes that hit me, made me recoil backwards, luckily I didn't have my usual cigarette on the go, otherwise I don't think either myself, Bandit or the shop would still be here. The whole contents of the can had covered the floor, luckily no damage. Venting the shop for the last couple of days, with the main electrics feed turned off has nearly got rid of all the fumes. Another couple of days and I might be able to go inside to do some work.
I am now looking at outside storage for all my flammables.

John

 

[rake60]

Just recently we had a man at work suffer serious burns to his right hand.

He was using a Oxy/Acc cutting torch.
The oxygen valve on the torch had a leaky o-ring and was bleeding
pure oxygen into his glove. It lit up and by the time he was able to get
the glove off the damage was already done.

Every Monday at our shop begins with a "Safety Tool Box" meeting covering
a new topic each week. The week following that event was on the safe handling
and inspection of cutting torches...

Rick

 

[zeusrekning]

Rick the same thing happened to me a few months ago. I was cutting with a jacket on and fumes went up the sleeve from a loose connection on the torch. As soon as I smelled the fumes and leaned up they ignited. Luckily just hair was lost.
Tim

 

[shred]

Long ago I had a cigarette lighter in a nylon jacket pocket (irony alert: I don't smoke and had swiped it from somebody to encourage them to stop). Either it was leaky or the latch got jammed down.. anyway, the inside of the jacket got filled with butane. I then stuck my hand in there, probably hit the sparker... and the whole pocket went up. I barely escaped skin grafts all down the back of my hand and fingers. For weeks I had to go in and have them scrape off the dead skin from the burn site.. yooowwwch!

 

[mklotz]

Another not so obvious safety concern is the possibility of being startled when doing something hazardous. We all know that a moment of inattention can be dangerous when using torch, bandsaw, drill press and, perhaps to a somewhat lesser degree, any powered tool.

My wife and daughters had strict instructions to never walk into the Garaj Mahal when I was embroiled in something unless they already had my attention. Fortunately, they recognized the danger and so followed my rule but the delivery men, missionaries and real estate men weren't so accommodating.

I installed a photodetector switch wired to a chime* for a while but it became so annoying that I eventually disabled it.

Warn your family members about the danger of startling someone who is doing anything with dangerous tools.

------------
* A chime is far less startling than a bell or buzzer - at least for me.