Tim from Telford, UK

[MRA]

My mate has one of those blue combination machines. It works (!) but there are problems with it - in order of most important (in my view, anyway)
* No backgear, so it's a bit fast for threading
* Milling head is a long way from the cross slide, with no (I think) vertical adjustment - you can buy a milled-up 'box' to sit on the cross slide to bring work closer to cutter, which my friend has.
* odd spindle - harder to fit any old chuck on it (sorry, I forget the details)
* drive is a bit lightweight
* no half-nuts as I remember - so carriage feed is always with the wheel on the end of the leadscrew
* no gearbox, and plastic change wheels
* collet type in miller head is weird - not a standard ER size, but very similar to look at

He makes good things and I wouldn't knock it to him, but that's my feelings.

I'm also tight for space - I have a Boxford 'A' which I like very much, but they can be pricey for a tight-wad like me - mine was a gift. The original South Bend A on which it is based tend to sell for much less here in UK, and I would probably try one if I ever need to set up somewhere else. Like others, I started 'milling in the lathe' - the E.T.Westbury book of that title is worth looking at.
cheers!

 

[methuselah1]

The book was originally written by Albert Marshall, revised by Westbury, then by Tom Walshaw (Tubal Cain) and is still readily available as part of the "Workshop Practice" series. Well worth forking out for!

 

[methuselah1]

Thanks for the tip on fuel, by the way! My local model shop feeds me all sorts of B.S. when they can't be bothered to get stuff for me.

 

[Drawfiler]

Welcome Tim, your quandary about what to do about milling is difficult, I think the choice of lathe is a bit easier, nearly all of the ‘Old Boys’ who designed and built engines in the post war years used Myford sized lathes (Drummond, Atlas, Myford Boxford) i would try and find a machine in that range. In this way, their designs will be the right size for the lathe. I have noticed that these machines have become cheaper in the UK recently so there may be a bargain out there for you, Milling is a problem if you are short of space so I would go for a separate Milldrill, you and your wife will be drilling holes so will need something and the footprint of these is better than a full blown miller, Having two separate machines will cost you about 2 foot of wall length, if you understand what I mean.
Workshop time is valuable and wants using to best advantage so:separate milling capacity is a great time saver.
The other problem is storing all the small tooling that you.
finally, I am not too far from you near Lichfield so if I can help, get into contact
Peter

 

[Majormallock]

Been workshop space poor all my life, but a separate mill is worth trying to fit in, it brings so many more option. I never got on with my Myford, despite it being the popular model engineers option. I suggest a small ex tool room lathe such as Harrison, Colchester, Holbrook or Hardinge, they will have all the features you will ever need. For a mill, go for an Elloit omnimill 00 which has a small footprint but is universal in every way, see adverts usually on the back of Model Engineers magazine

 

[Tim Hooper]

Today is my birthday, and my wife took us to a local restaurant for a romantic meal. Naturally we discussed the relative merits of Imperial v. metric lathes and milling machines (like any other married couple would), and we've sort of arrived at the shared decision to source two separate machines instead of a combo tool. This is definite progress.

The earlier part of my special day was spent installing insulation and lining boards in the new shed/workshop. Looking good.

Tim

 

[Tim Hooper]

Thanks for the tip on fuel, by the way! My local model shop feeds me all sorts of B.S. when they can't be bothered to get stuff for me.

Model Shop Leeds

 

[Drawfiler]

When you start on services for the shed, put in a tiny central heating radiator plumbed back into the house system, it will just provide enough heat to keep the rust away.
I am glad you are seriously considering the two machine option, I started with a Myford and replaced it with a Harrison and found it much better but do you have the room? The price of a reasonable:Colchester student or Harrison is much the same as a good Myford and you get a geared head, screwcutting gearbox with easy change from metric to imperial threads, power crossfeed etc but it is a bit big for turning 8ba threads!

 

[Old Guy]

Hello from Manchester I'm pretty much in the same boat as you in the middle of building a home workshop, my first thought was that wood and metal in the same room is not a good mix having done a lot of wood working in my garage the amount of wood dust produced on even a small job is astronomical and even with some sort of ventilation system I can't see it being eliminated and it would be all over your little oiled up lathe in no time and everything else. Personally I have avoided the lathe and mill combined as like you have said your probably getting the worst of both, I think a separate mill is the better option I have been searching the Ebay adds for a very long time and eventually found a nice Chester lathe that should meet my needs and just missed a very nice WARCO mill I should have tried harder for but I keep searching,I suppose it's all about budget and you say you have already been to Chester Hobby that's somewhere I keep meaning to visit but I'm afraid I might fall in love with some of their stuff and go overboard with the budget what was your impression of them.
I have now got the electrics installed but now need to buy some tooling to get started with the lathe my first job will be to check over the trueness of the lathe as described by Blondie Hacks (some great vids out there aren't there for us beginners) the engineering coarse is a great idea best of luck with that hope it goes well I look forward to hearing how things progress for you

John

 

[MRA]

That's a good point - (wood) dust extraction is worth thinking about. I've made a 'cyclone' thing from a kit once at work - like a DIY Dyson - and a powerful vacuum cleaner is enough suck. There are plans online for this kind of thing, and the bin etc could live outside the shed, tucked in a corner. But maybe have a go first and see how annoying you both find the dust!

 

[Old Guy]

When you start on services for the shed, put in a tiny central heating radiator plumbed back into the house system, it will just provide enough heat to keep the rust away.
I am glad you are seriously considering the two machine option, I started with a Myford and replaced it with a Harrison and found it much better but do you have the room? The price of a reasonable:Colchester student or Harrison is much the same as a good Myford and you get a geared head, screwcutting gearbox with easy change from metric to imperial threads, power crossfeed etc but it is a bit big for turning 8ba threads!

Now the rust thing is a problem I've been thinking about too but the connecting to the house heating would be a big problem due to the position of the workshop I've had the lathe in the shop for about three months and so far it's not showing any signs but I suppose you just go in one morning and there it is everywhere.

 

[methuselah1]

Now the rust thing is a problem I've been thinking about too but the connecting to the house heating would be a big problem due to the position of the workshop I've had the lathe in the shop for about three months and so far it's not showing any signs but I suppose you just go in one morning and there it is everywhere.

My Dad has an impressive workshop... In his garage. He uses a dehumidifier. And an ML7 and a Super Seven, and a 1A miller as well, equipped with a Bridgeport head courtesy of John Stephenson, God bless John. (My Dad acquired that stuff in that order, by the way...) Rust ain't a problem, though he does panic if the dehumidifier fails.


-Andrew

 

[Old Guy]

My Dad has an impressive workshop... In his garage. He uses a dehumidifier. And an ML7 and a Super Seven, and a 1A miller as well, equipped with a Bridgeport head courtesy of John Stephenson, God bless John. (My Dad acquired that stuff in that order, by the way...) Rust ain't a problem, though he does panic if the dehumidifier fails.


-Andrew

I do have a brick built garage that has always been a every dry place to store anything and nothing has ever shown any signs of rust over the 40 years we have lived here, but my new wood built shed type workshop even being double skinned and insulated might be a very different story I fear, I did buy a small electric space heater to warm the place when in use but I doubt I'll be leaving that on full time especially with the huge hike in electricity prices, which by the way I don't know how all of you have been affected but mine have increased by at least 110% since my contract ended 31st Dec this is my situation up to Dec £207 PM latest quote from my supplier £5300 per annum I have no idea how the powers that be seem to be quoting in the region of 40% increase but I would advise everyone to thoroughly check your own figures before you get a terrible shock.

 

[awake]

On woodworking and metalworking - ideally, these would be separated, but for many of us, space does not permit what would be ideal. Even more important would be to separate anything involving abrasives, especially grinding of metal. But again, the ideal is not always possible.

I have a fairly extensive collection of woodworking, metal working, grinding, and fab / welding tools all in one half of a two-car garage. Dust collection keeps the saw dust to a manageable level, but if I have done some woodworking, or even if it has just been several days, I always need to wipe down the ways before using the metal working tools. Doesn't take long, and hasn't seemed to cause any problems over the past dozen years. I do keep the welding and grinding operations as far from the other tools as possible, but again have to give attention to making sure I am not conveying grinding grit to the other tooling.

Some absolutely essential ingredients that allow this space to work: 1) Dust collection for the woodworking tools - an absolute must. I have a somewhat crude, home-made cyclone that further improves the dust collection. 2) Wheels on most of the tooling - either by way of rolling carts that hold various tools, or wheels added to the stand for a few tools, or home-built stands that allow wheels to be engaged or not engaged. The major exceptions are the larger lathe (12-1/2 x 30 Cincinnati Traytop) and the Bridgeport mill; these occupy a fixed location. 3) Extensive shelving (all home-built) to hold stock (both wood and metal) and seldom-used tools; much of this shelving is set high and must be accessed with a step ladder - the slight inconvenience of access is more than erased by the ability to have a large amount of storage up out of the way. This also lets me "cheat" and use some of my wife's side of the garage - I have used every wall of the garage for at least some shelving, and the 10' height of the ceilings in the garage let me put two rows of shelving in many places. 4) The other half of the garage - this space is reserved for my wife's car, but when I need to work on a large project, or just to be able to move some things around to access certain tools, it is invaluable, precisely because it otherwise must be kept clear - in other words, this ensures access to a relatively large space when needed.

 

[Vietti]

When I built my shop here in Wyoming I heated it with a natural gas garage heater, basically a box with a burner and blower, not very efficient. Works OK but during the winter when it gets real cold the cement floor gets pretty cold to stand on. I wish I had done like some others locally and run radiant heat pipes in the floor before pouring the cement floor and using a small water heater and circulating pump to heat the floors. Some newer water heaters are pretty efficient. Just a thought. I suppose in a small shop you could embed the pipes in sand and lay brick or whatever over the top. An issue with radiant floors is the thermal mass takes a long time to warm back up so if you turn the heat down and go on holiday, when you return it may take a few days to get back to temp.

 

[Old Guy]

On woodworking and metalworking - ideally, these would be separated, but for many of us, space does not permit what would be ideal. Even more important would be to separate anything involving abrasives, especially grinding of metal. But again, the ideal is not always possible.

I have a fairly extensive collection of woodworking, metal working, grinding, and fab / welding tools all in one half of a two-car garage. Dust collection keeps the saw dust to a manageable level, but if I have done some woodworking, or even if it has just been several days, I always need to wipe down the ways before using the metal working tools. Doesn't take long, and hasn't seemed to cause any problems over the past dozen years. I do keep the welding and grinding operations as far from the other tools as possible, but again have to give attention to making sure I am not conveying grinding grit to the other tooling.

Some absolutely essential ingredients that allow this space to work: 1) Dust collection for the woodworking tools - an absolute must. I have a somewhat crude, home-made cyclone that further improves the dust collection. 2) Wheels on most of the tooling - either by way of rolling carts that hold various tools, or wheels added to the stand for a few tools, or home-built stands that allow wheels to be engaged or not engaged. The major exceptions are the larger lathe (12-1/2 x 30 Cincinnati Traytop) and the Bridgeport mill; these occupy a fixed location. 3) Extensive shelving (all home-built) to hold stock (both wood and metal) and seldom-used tools; much of this shelving is set high and must be accessed with a step ladder - the slight inconvenience of access is more than erased by the ability to have a large amount of storage up out of the way. This also lets me "cheat" and use some of my wife's side of the garage - I have used every wall of the garage for at least some shelving, and the 10' height of the ceilings in the garage let me put two rows of shelving in many places. 4) The other half of the garage - this space is reserved for my wife's car, but when I need to work on a large project, or just to be able to move some things around to access certain tools, it is invaluable, precisely because it otherwise must be kept clear - in other words, this ensures access to a relatively large space when needed.

Like you I have a large double garage and like you also one half is completely full on the floor with all the various tools I have accumulated over the past 40 yrs and that is despite the fact that the whole wall on that side has racking all the way along it to a height of 8ft and that is completely full too.
It is really very embarrassing but I can't bring myself to throw any of it away maybe I'm a hoarder who knows

 

[Tim Hooper]

Lots of good info in this thread - so thank you all for your input!

I'm aware of the dust problem when mixing wood and metal in the same workshop, so we'll be investing in a basic extraction unit to minmise the saw dust. Additionally, Mrs Hooper is a proficient seamstress, and will make close-fitting dust covers as necessary for the more delicate machinery. Not ideal, but workable I think.

Well, the new Shed of Dreams is now insulated and lined. The next step is to call in the electrician, and get some power in there!

Tim

 

[Mike Ginn]

On the subject of rust and heating. For 40 years I have had my workshop in an uninsulated, unheated garage and I have had no rust issues. To me the secret is to cover the lathe with the (very expensive) Myford plastic cover which is open at the base. My mill is covered with a plastic bag. Tools subject to rust are kept in (thickish) plastic bags. When there is dew on the garage door I don't use the workshop. The key is to prevent warm air coming into contact with the colder metal. The air under the plastic bags acts as a buffer. (I have avoided discussion about dew points etc!)
I have now moved on and have a new workshop with an electric heater, insulation and a dehumidifier and no plastic bags. With the increase in energy costs I will need to review this!
The chucks below are all 40 years old. The 3 jaw is usually kept on the lathe under the cover and the others are kept in plastic bags on a shelf over the lathe.

Conclusion:- have no fear of an unheated garage but take precautions!

Mike

 

[Johan Maritz]

Very valuable advice, i'm moving house to the coast where i will have to take care of this issue. As a matter of fact i do have a Myford cover that i'm using. But what you say makes sense to me.

 

[Derrick Higton]

If your workshop is against an east facing wall, you can expect huge problems with rust, as the space warms up with the morning sun while the tools are still cold. The opposite can be the case with a west-facing wall, with hardly any rusting at all. At least, that is my experience.