The QCTP and Indexable Tooling MythBusting

[Nick Hulme]

Number one and your starter for 10 is
If you have decided to purchase a QCTP then -

"You need something more expensive or complex than a Dickson Clone QCTP"

You might, but you probably don't, you need to shop around for a less than shoddy copy but unless you are running more than 1hp then you should find a competent one at a decent price, my front QCTP is from RDG Tools and the rear QCTP is from Chronos, neither compares to my genuine Dickson but both are entirely OK

Also consider that a QCTP is pointless until you also have enough holders for all the tools you commonly use, plus a few spares for odd jobs, just so you don't have to disturb your frequently used tools for something out of the ordinary, if the holders are not affordable don't buy the QCTP

More Later!
:fan:
- Nick

 

[Dr Jo]

No you don't even need a quick change tool holder, it is one of those nice to haves.

It is like fitting a DRO to a Lathe most people, who have not owned a lathe with one fitted, can't see the point .

Jo

 

[Nick Hulme]

No you don't even need a quick change tool holder, it is one of those nice to haves.

It is like fitting a DRO to a Lathe most people, who have not owned a lathe with one fitted, can't see the point .

Jo

Good points, I have added the phrase "If you have decided to purchase a QCTP then - " to clarify the thrust of my post,
Regards,
Nick

 

[goldstar31]

I have three- I think. Never paid for any of them. One forgets at 86 so why bother?

Mind you I have a rather nice little Cleeve swing tool that few people have heard about, and fewer understand.



but hang on. I've just come in from my RAF Squadron Reunion- where the talk was Merlins, Gypsy Queen71's, Cheetahs and Peggies. My old fitter from 1948 and I were 'chewin' the fat' after all those years.

The scale? Well, 12" to the foot- of course

I'll get me coat- but can't remember where I put.

Goldstar Corporal

 

[Blogwitch]

I use the 'Aloris' piston style toolpost, size 200, a fairly cheap one at the time, and have done so for at least ten years or more.

I do make my own holders (really easy to do if you have a mill) and I won't be making any more full height ones as I have more than enough now, from now on, half height only, to take all the 1/4" & 3/8" HSS tooling I have.

Some people can spend thousands on their super QCTP's and very expensive holders, but that is their decision, I could do the same, but don't as I am very happy with what I have.
I have found mine to be very rigid for what I do, and I do carve some real rough stuff, and for normal machining, a 1/4" cut isn't too excessive.

But I do make sure my ways are kept well lubricated with the correct oil and adjusted to my 'feel' so that there are no gaps under or around the bedways to cause chattering and other associated problems.

To me, a QCTP is one of the first things you should get for your lathe, it saves all that wasted time shimming up to get to centre, plus finding somewhere to put the tooling and it's loose shim pack can cause problems as well, I just made up a holder that holds all my holders with tools already set to height.
Once set with a QCTP, you just drop your tool into place and away you go.

The next item would be spare chucks with soft jaws to give you more accuracy, I won't buy a chuck unless I can get soft jaws for it at the same time, in fact I have just bought a 100mm 4 jaw self centring with soft jaws for an upcoming CNC mill build, to go onto the rotary table, and then maybe a DRO.
That is the order that my items came along, and have built on it since.

John

 

[Nick Hulme]

I use the 'Aloris' piston style toolpost

I like the aAloris type John, and also the ones with a vertical wedge system but when I was shopping for a QCTP many moons ago the Dickson was the only game in town that would fit on a Myford and not make you think you'd just met Dick Turpin on the local Turnpike! ;-)

- Nick

 

[Dr Jo]

Some people can spend thousands on their super QCTP's and very expensive holders,

I haven't come across any of those.

I am happy with my cheap old Swiss Multifix toolsets which cost a small fraction of those sorts of prices. They have the advantage that they can put the cutting edge of the tool back in place within a micron of where it is programmed in the DRO, then off you go again :thumbup:

Jo

 

[goldstar31]

******* the Dickson was the only game in town that would fit on a Myford and not make you think you'd just met Dick Turpin on the local Turnpike! ;-)

- Nick

Always assuming that one is suffering from the ravages of memory loss.
I don't think that anyone with knowledge of first class model engineering would dismiss 'Cleeve'/KC. Hart), Tubal Cain/TD Walshaw, George Thomas or Jack Radford.

All of them owned more than one Myford--- and ALL of them wrote books which remain in print.

 

[Nick Hulme]

Always assuming that one is suffering from the ravages of memory loss.
I don't think that anyone with knowledge of first class model engineering would dismiss 'Cleeve'/KC. Hart), Tubal Cain/TD Walshaw, George Thomas or Jack Radford.

All of them owned more than one Myford--- and ALL of them wrote books which remain in print.

Who sold those off the shelf?

 

[goldstar31]

Let 'Google' be your friend but my set of Moonbeams from the Lesser Lunacy came from Tee.

I renewed my Model Engineers Workshop Manual by Geo Thomas at the Ally Pally in January. All of the stuff came from Model Engineer but was later made into book form.

Somewhere in the anus horriblis( ouch) of ME is a bit on restoring a Myford ML7----- by moi.

Gurthcha

N

 

[Blogwitch]

Jo,

The Multifix is a very nice system, and as you say, can be bought reasonably cheaply, depending on the size of your machine.

For a bigger one, say for my lathe, then here is a starter kit.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Lathe-Too...hash=item543a76a90b:m:miTy5CQ0nm0Dc3dNwuVgrJg

Great to have a starter set with say 3 holders, it is when you come to buy spare holders, and I have I think a couple of dozen to fit the Aloris, many easily made by myself, but you can't easily make your own for the Multifix, and some of the holders can cost over 100 UK pounds each. But I think you can buy clones a little cheaper, but I have heard they are not really compatible.

Methinks I will stick with mine, it does everything I need to do with it.

 

[Nick Hulme]

Let 'Google' be your friend

Not books, QCTPs.
I'm no longer one of those chaps willing to spend his whole life making tooling so he can run out of time on making the actual things he wants to make, if I was daft enough to think I needed Multifix I'd make rather than buy as the prices to the hobby market are a complete pee-take ;-)

For Myford size £60 for a QCTP and less than £25 for holders is fine, more is a re-seller taking the pee out of both his supplier and customers, but sadly as all re-sellers these days expect to double the price for the complex work of buying in and selling out pee-taking is par for the course.
:-(

- Nick

 

[Wizard69]

I haven't come across any of those.

I am happy with my cheap old Swiss Multifix toolsets which cost a small fraction of those sorts of prices. They have the advantage that they can put the cutting edge of the tool back in place within a micron of where it is programmed in the DRO, then off you go again :thumbup:

Jo

They are out there! Consider the price Hardinge puts on their QCTP for the HLV lathes. That little QCTP is actually a nice design for small lathes and would be worth copying. That is if one wanted to DIY the entire QCTP set up.

I'm of the opinion that any form of QCTP is better than an old lantern type tool post.

 

[deverett]

I'm of the opinion that any form of QCTP is better than an old lantern type tool post.

What's wrong with the good old 4 way turret? The indexing design of GHT was very good and lasted me for well over 10 years before I was persuaded to go for a QCTP (the A & R copy of Dickson).
For ME it was a bad choice, but I know I'm in the minority.
I found the old toolpost much faster to index than the QCTP. I had all the shims kept with the individual tools so if I needed to change tools, it was only a brief moment. I made 2, one for ferrous and one for non ferrous metal cutting, but I rarely changed over - it was just as quick to swap over the individual tools when required.

Dave
The Emerald Isle

 

[goldstar31]

I'm about to finish a GHT. All that is left is a new toolpost to do. You know the sort of thing Dave. Instead of getting a luverly demo of how to turn a piece of round but turn a bit of inch, down to 9/16th, screwcut half 9x16th BSB, then a half inch, screwcut half to 1/2"BSB and then the rest down to 7/16th BSF.

And that is only part of the exercise.

Tomorrow or next day brings the long awaited 6 way turret to go on the old Myford. I'm holding my wet fingers into the breeze and pointing them North as I'm not sure that it will fit. Flying blind on a wing and a big prayer. Then point East as that is where the last miracle was supposed to come.

After all, it is only metal and one way( hopefully) of keeping the remaining old grey cells sort of functioning.

Norman