Taig Lathe Limitations

[lwilton651]

Hi all,
A quick introduction:
I am a mechanical engineering student who just completed his workshop training, though I will in no way treat this as any kind of real experience or certification, it did get me very interested in metalworking and machining.

I am looking at getting started on my own and would love my own machine(s).
I would love to limit this to one machine if I could as it would have to go in my reasonably large room. I have read alot about the horrors of combination machines which did indeed disappoint me quite a bit, and I was wondering if the mill 'attachments' for the Taig/Sherline lathes are any better?

I would like to build small scale engines, mainly gas/diesel and work my way up to 1/4 scale RC engines (sorry steam lovers), no matter where I look I can't seem to find anything regarding Machine Size requirements for the different scale radial engine plans or automotive type engines and was wondering what I could expect to build on a Taig or Sherline mill size wise?

A little table I made for reference.

 

[lwilton651]

Forgot to mention, for the Taig Mills, the brackets represent 'without riser'/'with riser'
and For the Seig C2 there are 2 sizes of bed length, represented by the brackets.

 

[vederstein]

You can machine small parts on a big machine. It doesn't work the other way. Everything else being equal, get the largest, heaviest machine you can afford.

...Ved.

 

[lwilton651]

Hi Ved,
I've read every 'best first lathe' forum I could find, I hope this didn't sound like just another one of them, I'm a few years of being able to dedicate a space to machines, when I can I will and I will get the biggest I can, until then I really don't have the option unfortunately.
I am wondering if one of these micro/mini, Sherline/Taig mills will be able to get me started building these small engines or if I will waste money buying tooling that isn't capable of doing what I would like to do.
So the question really is 'can the Taig lathe build 1/4 scale engines?'

 

[canadianhorsepower]

I have a Taig lathe and love it . Get one with no motor and get the motor
from a Sherline lathe. Smaller, variable speed and get a collet set

cheers

 

[canadianhorsepower]

yes you could, but if you don't have much experience with a lathe
I would not suggest you to do so , you would be using it to the max
and you would also need a riser kit for it

 

[gus]

Hi Wilton,
Seeing is believing.Please use this website----------deansphotograhica.com. Dean is a very experienced machinist. How he managed to turn out so many projects with Taig Lathe
is a wonder. I would for for a bigger machine. I went one size up to a lathe with 4'' chuck and 15'' between centre. Please buy lathe for vendors like Littlemachineshop etc. Buying from direct importers is committing suicide. No warranty. With my lathe and mini mill-----12mm end miil max. I found myself stretching both machine tools. See foto. 3'' Rotary Table Prints came from same website. There are also some small model i.c. engines etc. These engines are best attempted by advanced beginners as there are some very unforgiving fits. Once upon a time many moons ago,Gus was also engineering student.

 

[lwilton651]

Thanks for your replies!
CHP (is that an OK abbreviation? )
Is it difficult to mount the sherline motor? Especially given I currently have no tooling?
I have specifically searched for disadvantages of using risers but couldn't find anything specific, does it noticeable affect accuracy/rigidity?

Unfortunately Little Machine Shop won't ship their lathes out of North America (I'm in Australia), sieg does have an Australian store which I was planning on using.
Would a 4 inch chuck based lathe take up a lot more room? Is there an example of one of these machines you would recommend?
Thanks again!

 

[canadianhorsepower]

CHP (is that an OK abbreviation? )

sure


Is it difficult to mount the sherline motor?
a Sherline motor is almost a straight bolt on

I have specifically searched for disadvantages of using risers but couldn't find anything specific, does it noticeable affect accuracy/rigidity?

Riser give you more clearance to work with and does not affect the accuracy at all their is probably more Taig with risers then Taig without

 

[Cogsy]

I'm in Australia as well and I initially went with a Sieg C3, although I have recently 'upgraded' to a larger lathe. Realistcally, I could still be using the C3 within it's limitations to build the engines I'm currently building, including a V4 I.C. engine I'm about to start, and several hit and miss I.C. engines I've already completed.

The C3 comes in at under 50 KG so it's easy to lug about if space is an issue and you need to shift it around. As for the 2 in 1 machines, my 'new' lathe is a combo but I've never used the mill attachment. I have a separate mill/drill and I can see that the mill attachment would be very painful to use and has nowhere near the capability I need to build complex engines. I'd definitely advise against a combo.

 

[gmac]

Here's another website by a Taig user which will give you some insight into lathe selection and an idea of what can be built;

http://www.jrbentley.com/workshop.html

http://www.modelengines.info/

http://www.technitoys.com/the-taig-lathe/

The motherlode;

http://www.cartertools.com/

My first lathe was the Taig (used) although tough steel and larger diameters are challenging. Which means the crankcases of radial engines will be difficult. I added a 9x20 lathe and am happy. The Taig will not be sold.

Cheers Garry

 

[mc_n_g]

The Sherline and Taig are nice machines. I would list the Seig as the better 'quality' of the Chinese machines. You will most likely be tinkering with the Seig to fix it up to your liking. That does not mean is not a capable machine. The capability lies mostly with the operator.
Expect to pay at a minimum of 1/2 to 3/4 of the lathe to get additional tooling and instruments you will need. You WILL be putting some money into it, this is not a one and done setup.
You will need to figure out the larger RC engine you will be making, we have no idea. See if the machine fits that capacity.
As stated up above, large machines are capable of small parts. They can also be sturdier and handle cuts much better than smaller machines. Keep that in mind.

 

[gus]

The Sherlines and Taigs are only starters/appetisers/deserts and very soon a main meal-----''Sieg'' required.

Will be very difficult to coax Taig/Sherline to turn a 3.5'' Flywheel for the Nemett-Lynx Engine.

 

[bazmak]

Hi,im in Adelaide if you read Bazmaks threads on Sieg lathe and mill
it should answer all your questions.I would recommend these machines,the C2 lathe will do anything you ask without being too big and heavy.Could for instance be used in the house in a bedroom,and its well worth the money
You can get the basic mc for $650 but i went with the more upmarket for $800 to
$1000.Depends where you are.If you have any questions i will be glad to advise
Regards bazmak

 

[lwilton651]

Hi, Bazmak,
Every thread I read (including this one), people talk about how they started with a sieg and upgraded, whereas everyone who started with a taig/sherline has 'added' a larger lathe, is there something, of the c2 size, atleast in terms of swing over bed, that is comparable with the Taig/Sherline in terms of accuracy? A machine capable of taking a milling attachment (z slide) would be great!
Thanks for your help!

 

[Cogsy]

I started with a C3 and only 'upgraded' to a larger lathe so I could swing bigger flywheels and I got the added benefit of being able to take a deeper cut. I did keep my little C3 though, and I would not part with it. If I need to single point thread a part it's always on the C3 and I can hit my numbers and achieve better accuracy on the C3, it just takes longer. For critical (and small) things like valves, it's my go-to machine.

I can't comment on how the accuracy compares to a Taig/Sherline but I know I can hit 0.01mm with the C3 if I try hard enough, and that's plenty accurate enough for me.

 

[lwilton651]

Hi Cogsy,
Again I'm new to this, I probably don't know what kind of accuracies I need, the numbers in my head come from what I've read, in particular, and article/post about DIY CNC machines and the accuracies that the author had achieved. He wrote about (from what I can remember) needing 0.001mm for making rotating or reciprocating engine components, and 0.01mm for engine blocks.
I had assumed those kind of numbers were out of the Sieg's league?
To those who have reminded me to budget for accessories, I am.
And for anyone whose interested, I consider DRO a must.
Thanks again!

 

[Cogsy]

To be honest, I have nothing that can even measure to 0.001mm - that's one micron or 0.00004". I know little about CNC, except as it relates to plasma cutting which is far less critical.

As far as the accuracy is concerned, I was referring to turning something to nominal diameter and getting within 0.01mm to the nominal size I was after. I have no idea what sort of accuracy I achieved as far as flatness/parallelism, except that it was acceptable and outside of what I can measure. I would think a 1 micron difference in bore to cylinder/shaft sizes would virtually be an interference/press fit and is far tighter than is used in practice. For example Jan Ridders internal valve flame licker (such engines require very critical fits) quotes the piston should be 0.03mm or less smaller than the bore for the engine to function. At this size, with no rings at all, the piston should produce a very good seal in the bore.

As for the engine block, largely they're not really dimensionally critical at all, within reason. Most of my engines have the engine block accurate within a millimetre or two, depending on the stock I had and the look I was going for.

 

[Tin Falcon]

If you think a sherline is too small to be of much good or too much of a toy then you are wrong. A small lathe will make small projects but that does not mean you can not make masterpieces.
Jerry Keifer is a member of the internet craftsmanship museum

Sherline is proud to confirm that Jerry Kieffer uses Sherline tools in the production of his small projects.

now check out his projects.

http://www.craftsmanshipmuseum.com/Kieffer.htm

The late great Rudy Kouhoupt also owned a sherline as well as a couple other small lathes such as a perris and a unimat.

About Rudy and his work.

http://www.craftsmanshipmuseum.com/Kouhoupt.htm

Rudy K plan book are assailable through Villiage press and designated dealers.


Tin

 

[Zeb]

Will be very difficult to coax Taig/Sherline to turn a 3.5'' Flywheel for the Nemett-Lynx Engine.

Yeh, you'd need a riser kit and light cuts. Someone turned their Ø6.5" flywheel on a Sherline mill with spindle set to 90 degrees. What I like is I can swap rotary table to lathe and back without unchucking anything. The parts worked on are small, but most of the projects I do can sit on a shelf.

There are many times where I wished I had a larger lathe, but then I need to find a place to put it!