Swifty's build of Howell V4

Discussion in 'A Work In Progress' started by Swifty, Mar 2, 2015.

Help Support HMEM by donating:

  1. Mar 2, 2015 #1

    Swifty

    Swifty

    Swifty

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2012
    Messages:
    2,253
    Likes Received:
    817
    I've had too much time off already, doing other things, so its time to start the next engine. I always liked the look of the Howell V4 water cooled engine, so here I go. I called into the aluminium suppliers this afternoon to pick up some offcuts, they may be called offcuts, but they charge full price for them. My best find was the large piece for the engine block, only an extra 10mm on one side to machine off. A couple of the thinner plates were just grabbed to cut pieces out as needed, so $110 later I walked out with his stack.

    [​IMG]

    I'm already intimidated just looking at the drawing of the engine block, so I will start on something a bit simpler first. I would also like to use metric screws on this engine, so will study the drawings a bit more to make sure that its suitable.

    Paul
     
    ken morris, R Degen and larry1 like this.
  2. Mar 2, 2015 #2

    Cogsy

    Cogsy

    Cogsy

    Well-Known Member Staff Member Global Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2012
    Messages:
    2,501
    Likes Received:
    721
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Perth, Western Australia
    Another build I'll be following intently!

    That stack of stock does look a bit light on for $110. The supplier I use charges a flat rate of $10 a kilo for offcuts and some of them can be quite large. On the odd occaision I needed something that wasn't available aas an offcut they would chop me a piece and still charge the same rate. They really look after the hobby guys for some reason...
     
  3. Mar 2, 2015 #3

    Swifty

    Swifty

    Swifty

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2012
    Messages:
    2,253
    Likes Received:
    817
    Hi Cogsy, I bought the material pictured from Capral, there is a scrap metal dealer that I can get some plate aluminium from, but not in sizes large enough for the engine block. I will weigh the material and see what the price is per kg.

    Paul.
     
  4. Mar 2, 2015 #4

    gus

    gus

    gus

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2010
    Messages:
    2,998
    Likes Received:
    1,165
    Paul,

    With your bigger machine tools,you will beat me hands down. Gus is at the mercy of the mini Japanese Lathe and Jap Mill.The C/bore now waiting for Case Hardening Compound. Trial cuts were not encouraging.
    HiTensile Fastener does not respond to hardening.
    Week after next----------14--------18 Feb Deep Sea Fishing for giant groupers at Burma Bank,Burma.


    Metric Fasteners. I used M4 Socket Heads for the O/Heads and M4 studs/nuts for the Cylinder bottom footings.M4 is about 1/2mm bigger than the prescribed 6-32. Now taking it easy with the O/H sub-assembly parts.

    When you get to the double sized crankcase,Gus will be watching like a hawk. Basis if I could machine the V-4 CrankCase then same engine would not be impossible for Gus to tackle.

    Best of luck to your latest engine.(Spent S$120 for materials to build 2 V-2s,Guess may be due to lower labour cost)
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2015
  5. Mar 3, 2015 #5

    Swifty

    Swifty

    Swifty

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2012
    Messages:
    2,253
    Likes Received:
    817
    I weighed the stack today, it's 10.4kg, so I'm paying about the same price as you.

    Paul.
     
  6. Mar 3, 2015 #6

    Cogsy

    Cogsy

    Cogsy

    Well-Known Member Staff Member Global Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2012
    Messages:
    2,501
    Likes Received:
    721
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Perth, Western Australia
    Interesting. It's hard to gauge scale of the materials I guess, it just looks like a smallish pile. Maybe because I know it's for a V4 and I know how big my V4 will be so that skews my brain into thinking it's a small pile.

    I've never contacted Capral (we have them over here as well) but I might give them a go next time I need something as they're just down the road.
     
  7. Mar 3, 2015 #7

    ruzzie

    ruzzie

    ruzzie

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2008
    Messages:
    139
    Likes Received:
    35
    I started the V4 a while ago and looked at using metric screws but decided they just didn't look right, so I splashed out and bought the V4 Fasteners Kit $35 & the V4 Ball Bearings Kit $99. Our exchange rate was a lot better at the time.
     
  8. Mar 3, 2015 #8

    barnesrickw

    barnesrickw

    barnesrickw

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2012
    Messages:
    645
    Likes Received:
    121
    I pay $1.50/pound at my local scrap yard. So, $1.50/lb x 2.21lb/kg. $3.32/kg?
     
  9. Mar 3, 2015 #9

    Cogsy

    Cogsy

    Cogsy

    Well-Known Member Staff Member Global Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2012
    Messages:
    2,501
    Likes Received:
    721
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Perth, Western Australia
    I can't buy scrap that cheap here either, but is the stuff at the scrap yard brand new? If you can buy stuff like this at that price then we can probably work out a deal to ship it to me, I'll sell it locally and we'll both still make money!
     
  10. Mar 3, 2015 #10

    Swifty

    Swifty

    Swifty

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2012
    Messages:
    2,253
    Likes Received:
    817
    Barnsrickw, with our current exchange rate, the amount that I paid for new stock equals US$3.56 per pound. Next time I'm passing the scrap dealers I will call in and buy some plate for my own stock and compare the price.

    Ruzzie, I may do like you did and buy the fasteners and bearings from Howells.

    Paul.
     
  11. Mar 3, 2015 #11

    gus

    gus

    gus

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2010
    Messages:
    2,998
    Likes Received:
    1,165
    Hi Paul,
    Bought ''O'' Rings and bearings from Howell. You will surprised with the qty of ''O'' rings when it arrived.
    For your V-4 that will double qty. CounterBore Spark Plug holes done though a bit scary when I recalled messing up two Nemett-Lynx O/heads.
    Looks like we have at least three Howell V engines being build now. PistonBroke,Paul and Gus. I can imaging more will follow shortly.Raw Beginners not encourage to build this engine as their first or second built. Same engine not very forgiving.
    When can we see the first foto shot???:)
     
  12. Mar 3, 2015 #12

    Swifty

    Swifty

    Swifty

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2012
    Messages:
    2,253
    Likes Received:
    817
    Gus, I'm keen to get started but other things keep interrupting me, one of my sons came over this afternoon and wanted to make a rack to put on his KTM dirt bike so he can carry some sleeping gear for overnight trips. So off to the aluminium suppliers again for some 4mm plate, then spent a few hours machining it up and milling plenty of slots in it for tie down straps. Still not finished, have to put a few lightening holes in it. Rest of this week is busy with other things also, hopefully next week I will have some progress pictures.

    Paul.
     
    gus likes this.
  13. Mar 3, 2015 #13

    digiex-chris

    digiex-chris

    digiex-chris

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2010
    Messages:
    263
    Likes Received:
    56
    Neat! Eager to see more!
     
  14. Mar 5, 2015 #14

    barnesrickw

    barnesrickw

    barnesrickw

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2012
    Messages:
    645
    Likes Received:
    121
    Most of the aluminum in the scrap yard here is off fall from one of the local machine shops. You have to dig, but I've come up with some nice pieces. Most appears to be 6061.
     
  15. Mar 5, 2015 #15

    Swifty

    Swifty

    Swifty

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2012
    Messages:
    2,253
    Likes Received:
    817
    The plate that is available here is 5083 grade, used for high strength structural applications, I find it great for hobby work.

    Paul.
     
    gus likes this.
  16. Mar 7, 2015 #16

    Swifty

    Swifty

    Swifty

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2012
    Messages:
    2,253
    Likes Received:
    817
    I've ordered the O rings, screw set and bearings from Howells, their in the mail already. I'm getting ready to block up the crankcase, I decided that I may as well make the hardest part first, so will be on the way shortly with this build.

    Paul.
     
    gus likes this.
  17. Mar 9, 2015 #17

    Swifty

    Swifty

    Swifty

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2012
    Messages:
    2,253
    Likes Received:
    817
    I'm on my way, I machined the crankcase slightly oversize as per drawing, this allows material for a skim cut in the lathe when boring the main hole. I decided to differ from the method stated in the drawings for the next stage, the instructions call for an adaptor plate to be used to hold the cylinder block to the face plate, but I decided to hold mine directly on the plate, my faceplate has a 2" bore so there is plenty of clearance for boring through. So instead of putting tapped holes in the crankcase to screw on the adaptor, I put in clearance holes and counterbores for M8 screws.

    [​IMG]

    I'm a little bit ahead of myself here, I retrieved the faceplate from where it had been lying for the last 12 years, still covered with waxed paper, so after a bit of a clean up I mounted it on the lathe. I have a DI-4 mount on the headstock, so its easy to mount chucks / plates up, the faceplate was running out about .012"on the face, so I took a skim cut to fix this. Next, over to the mill to locate the centre and drill and tap 2 x M8 holes for fastening the crankcase, this will be the first time that I have used the faceplate, so I thought that a couple of tapped holes might be handy.

    [​IMG]

    When I was drilling the screw holes, I also centre drilled the correct position for the main bore, so loosely clamping the block with 2 cap screws, I then held the block in place using a centre in the tailstock and nipped up the screws. Another MT centre was used with an indicator for final check of position.

    [​IMG]

    The main bore was drilled out and bored to finished size, along with a counterbore, the face of the block was also skimmed at this stage.

    [​IMG]

    Now I have to make a special boring tool to machine 2 reliefs in the bore.

    Paul.
     
    larry1 likes this.
  18. Mar 9, 2015 #18

    Davewild

    Davewild

    Davewild

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2013
    Messages:
    221
    Likes Received:
    103
    Great start, I'm following along.
     
  19. Mar 9, 2015 #19

    Cogsy

    Cogsy

    Cogsy

    Well-Known Member Staff Member Global Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2012
    Messages:
    2,501
    Likes Received:
    721
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Perth, Western Australia
    Looking good. First part, first setup and I'd be out of my depth already. Maybe I'll take the Howell V4 off my wish list.
     
  20. Mar 9, 2015 #20

    Swifty

    Swifty

    Swifty

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2012
    Messages:
    2,253
    Likes Received:
    817
    Thanks Dave. Cogsy, this is the easy part, machining the reliefs for the water cooling in the 4 cylinder bores is going to be tricky.

    Paul.
     

Share This Page