Suggestions of what to do with.

Discussion in 'A Work In Progress' started by Tony Bird, Feb 6, 2018.

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  1. Feb 6, 2018 #1

    Tony Bird

    Tony Bird

    Tony Bird

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    Hi,

    Having been away now for a couple of weeks, I have caught up with my drawings of what I might want to make again. While SWMBO was buying postcards in a souvenir shop so I went browsing. Among the usual tourist things there were some cast iron models, on a previous break I had bought a model of a treadle grindstone to which I added a steam engine. So I was quite interested to see what other models were available; there were models of telephones, sewing machine (might be able to do something with that), kitchen range, scales, a myriad of bells for all occasions and a stove. The stove had possibilities and at 16 euros not that expensive so worthy of some thought.

    I would go away and think about it. There was another stove not in the photograph which I later noticed which was missing its chimney and grill. What ever I thought could be made from it it was likely that the chimney and grill would not be used. So I ask how much they wanted for it and after a bit of negotiation we settled on 10 euros. The purchase means that I now will have to do something with it if only to placate SWMBO who said "What did you want and go and buy that for?" The following photographs are of my purchase along with a sketch with approximate dimensions; being a casting it isn't exactly round. I have some vague ideas but any suggestions might be helpful. It will be a further few weeks before I can get to the shed so plenty of time to cogitate.

    Regards Tony.

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  2. Feb 7, 2018 #2

    bmac2

    bmac2

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    Cool find Tony. Coal fired Stirling fan?
     
  3. Feb 7, 2018 #3

    Charles Lamont

    Charles Lamont

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    That was my thought too.
     
  4. Feb 8, 2018 #4

    Tony Bird

    Tony Bird

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    Hi Bob and Charles,

    A very interesting idea; I have never made a Stirling engine, do you know of any drawings of a suitable engine I might modify? I am not sure that such a small coal fire would work without drafting but a gas burner certainly would.

    Any thoughts would be appreciated.

    Regards Tony.
     
  5. Feb 8, 2018 #5

    Jasonb

    Jasonb

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    Couple of bearing pedestals fixed to the top rim to support a crankshaft, small steam engine cylinder at the bottom of one side driving the crank, dummy feed water pump on the opposite side driven off the crankshaft. Cut off remaining rim.

    A ring or two of dummy rivits to make it look more like a boiler then either run off air or make a small vertical copper boiler to go inside.
     
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  6. Feb 8, 2018 #6

    fcheslop

    fcheslop

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    I can see a nice little Stirling engine in that
    Bore the top out to take the hot cap and put the rest onto a plate bolted to the top that carries the power cylinder and an upright for the mains and flywheel sort of a retro Bing
    cheers
     
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  7. Feb 9, 2018 #7

    bmac2

    bmac2

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    Hi Tony.
    I too have NEVER built a Sterling engine. Well technically I did make one, and it ran, but it was one I got off you tube using a soup tin and a balloon so I don’t think it counts. These are the only plans I have for a fan. One of these days I want to give it a go but for some reason they just intimidate the heck out of me. It’s a 10” (254mm) fan and the hot end is 1.112” (28.24mm) by 2” (50.8mm) so it could have possibilities.

    View attachment Fan_Project_Description.pdf
     
  8. Feb 10, 2018 #8

    Tony Bird

    Tony Bird

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    Hi Bob,

    Thanks for the drawings I think they could work, I will get out my pencil case and draw the hot end fitted into the stove. The cast iron stove body consists of two half round castings welded together then a cap was welded to them, so nothing is very round. The base as can be seen is held by two screws so what ever I do with the stove it will be fitting where it touches.

    Hi Frazer,

    I don't know a lot about vintage toys do you know where I might get a photograph of what you suggest?

    Hi Jason,

    Until a Stirling engine was mentioned my thoughts were of fitting a boiler within the stove and might still be what happens.

    We still have a couple of weeks left in an apartment 1800 feet above the Atlantic still at least it is a pleasant 17 C but does drop to around 12 at night my shed I suspect will be around 0 C.

    Regards Tony.

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  9. Feb 10, 2018 #9

    JCSteam

    JCSteam

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    If this image works I believe this is what Frazer may be suggesting.

    rare-antique-bing-stirling-engine-vertical-hot-air-model-in-working-conditions.jpg
     
  10. Feb 10, 2018 #10

    Tony Bird

    Tony Bird

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    Hi JC,

    Thank you for the illustration it is very helpful.

    Hi,

    I have drawn (sorry for the quality; my drawings are at best dimension sketches) Bob's suggested Stirling engine on top of the stove and it looks as if it will fit and work.

    A couple of questions do you think that holes will need to be drilled in the side of the stove just below the lip to allow the gasses to escape? Also does the displacer piston need to be made from stainless steel or could any other material be used?

    Regards Tony.

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  11. Feb 10, 2018 #11

    fcheslop

    fcheslop

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    Hi Tony, just cannot find a pic of the one Im thinking of. The one Jon shows is close.This link may help
    https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/91Wx5P3OkgL._SY450_.jpg
    You need a ratio of around 1:5 to 1 I tend to go upto 1:8 to 1 and they run well
    When I get a little more time if you are going to build a Stirling Jan Ridders has a very good write up on his site for the basics of designing these little engines
    This is my take on a very old Doll design circa 1890-1910
    https://youtu.be/qDUhhlFaDck

    And this one despite what people say Stirlings can produce enough power to drag themselves along
    https://youtu.be/hpUQXHAX1Dw
    Be careful they become addictive
    I find stainless steel with a simple heat dam or better still glass hot end caps work well.The glass ones are just cut down test tubes although for clumsy hands like mine they are a bit fragile
    for the stainless kitchen tools are handy as is electrical conduit and car exhaust pipes .Lifes simple to short to machine them from sold and a copper end cap hard soldered on works well
    cheers
    frazer
     
  12. Feb 10, 2018 #12

    fcheslop

    fcheslop

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  13. Feb 11, 2018 #13

    JCSteam

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  14. Feb 11, 2018 #14

    Jasonb

    Jasonb

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    Julius has a couple of fan designs that may well fit, also look at Brians "head cold" thread for another sterling based on a fan design.

    http://www.vapeuretmodelesavapeur.com/telechargements4/

    You will need a way to let the gasses out either holes or a chimney.

    If you do go the steam/boiler route then you could substitute your casting for the Mapp gas cylinder used on this rather nice engine.

    [ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KvvdeQRm-iE&t=39s[/ame]
     
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  15. Feb 12, 2018 #15

    Tony Bird

    Tony Bird

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    Hi Frazer,

    Many thanks for the links and information, alas the internet here in Madeira is very slow so I really won't be able to appreciate them until we are back in the UK. Also I have no means of printing so looking at plans etc on my lap top is a bit of a pain.

    Hi Jason,

    Thank you also for the information. A very interesting use of empty propane bottles.

    We should be back in the UK in twelve days or so and I am looking forward to having a good look at the ideas that members have suggest for a use of the stove.

    Regards Tony.
     
  16. Feb 13, 2018 #16

    bmac2

    bmac2

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    Madeira? . . . As in Madeira Portugal! :eek:
    Tony I have a new suggestion. . . . . Stay in Madeira as long as you can.
    We just went through a week of Cold Weather Advisories (-30 to -37 wind chills) from Environment Canada. Sad to think that this morning when I saw that the wind chill was only -22C I thought “good it’s finally warming up”. I remember earlier you mentioned that it was 17C and come to think of it that’s as warm as it gets at work. They’ve gone Green and turned down the boilers.
    Enjoy the rest of your vacation :thumbup:
     
  17. Feb 14, 2018 #17

    Tony Bird

    Tony Bird

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    Hi Bob,

    Yes Madeira about 300 miles off North Africa. You might be right looking at the weather at home with low temperatures and snow! Though there is snow in Madeira at the moment on it 6000 foot mountains, today it is a pleasant 19 C though as our apartment is 1800 feet above the sea it is a few degrees lower. When I say over the sea I mean just that we are about 200/300 feet horizontally from the sea but it is a long way down. On weekends para gliders wave as they pass our balcony!

    We have another 10 days or so before we return to Old South Wales and we are not looking forward to the temperature drop. Still it will be good to get back to the shed after it has warmed up and play with the stove along with other projects.

    Regards Tony.

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  18. Feb 27, 2018 #18

    Tony Bird

    Tony Bird

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    Hi,

    We are back in the UK and snow is on the way! It took some time to warm the shed up but I have done a little work on the stove. I have decided that a Stirling engine is the way to go. However before going and sourcing materials I thought it would be a good idea to check that the cast iron the stove is made from can be machined and it is was; other than where the welds are it machined very well. So it is print out the drawings time and see what materials I have and which I have to get.

    Regards Tony.

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  19. Feb 28, 2018 #19

    Tony Bird

    Tony Bird

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    Hi,

    I continued working on the stove today. The exhaust holes have been drilled under the lip of the stove I had hoped to drill them higher up but the welds holding the top on have hardened the cast iron so not easy to drill. The base is now held by two screws and I have checked what metal is in stock to make the engine but so far only a block of aluminium has come to light. Unfortunately the local metal shop has closed because its owner has retired. When it warms up I will go to my model engineering club to see if I can find some suitable material.

    Regards Tony.

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