Steam powered Skiff where do I start?

[Shipdisturber]

I got the steam engine bug, plus I've built RC boats for the last thirty years and now I want to combine the two. So my question is what is a good marine steam engine and boiler to build for an RC marine application. I plan on making the hull three feet long, the rest of the dimensions will come to me as I go along. I have a South Bend 9 inch lathe with a milling attachment plus drill press, many hand tools and heavy bench with vise. A lead on where to find building plans would be extremely helpful, thanks for all inputs in advance!

 

[Blogwitch]

Three feet seems a little short, add another foot and you will be getting into the realms of easily made steam engines of about 1/4" to 3/8" bore twin cylinder, which would be more than ample for a 4ft boat. Remember, you will have to fit in a fairly large boiler and an engine a few inches further along, so any extra space will be appreciated.

Once you decide, I should be able to put you straight with regards to boilers and engines.

John

 

[fcheslop]

Vic Smeeds clinker launch River Queen makes a nice small steam launch either a small wobbler or Malcolm Beaks MB22
Malcolm designed the MB22 for his River Queen I believe
I prefer oscillating engines in my boats they are just more reliable out on the pond especially in the smaller sizes
River Queen plans used to be sold by MAP or My Hobby Store and theres some fibre glass hulls available.
MB22 plans are on Paddleducks or via Malcolm I think the engine has or is been reprinted in an American Magazine or thats what Malcolm mentioned last time I spoke to him a few months ago.
cheers

 

[Shipdisturber]

The reason I choose three feet is because my hobby work space is limited to that. Is a boat that size too small to make a boiler and steam engine? I will be making everything from scratch so I can adjust the size as needed. Thank you for replying to my post both of you know what you are talking about I appreciate that.

 

[fcheslop]

As John already mentions 4ft models are just that bit easier as they have that bit more room and displacement having said that most of my models are under 4ft and a couple under 2ft all steam powered
I keep the smaller models steam plants as simple as possible and a light as possible due to the amount of displacement the hull has and tend to design the hulls a little bit more beamy than true scale
If you want to see some smaller models Les Proper has a few Utube videos and Malcolm Beeks River Queen is on utube sorry Iv no link for it
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qr3VwP_7ThM[/ame]
Good luck with the build it would be nice to see some pics on youre journey
Heres a link for an ongoing build by a very good friend who also knows his onions.
https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?2988006-Titanic-lifeboat-steam-conversion

best wishes
frazer

 

[Blogwitch]

The main reason I stated larger is otherwise your sailing year can easily be shortened by the weather.

With a small steamer, even a fairly small chop on the water can be very unforgiving, and I have seen a couple turn turtle.

My last steamer had a strong bow and was fairly heavy, being clad in 1/8" planks and based around the 4ft long Krick Victoria, the other members used to wait for me to get to the lake as it could easily break up the thin ice, allowing them to get in an afternoons sailing with their fragile electric scale models.

John

 

[fcheslop]

She looks very nice John.
Did you fit the Duval engine or one of youre own design just curious
The bigger models have many advantages but like the original poster I tended to build small as Im a tight wads and couldnt fit a big model into my car or the sidecar although after owning the car(mini) for 35 years I bowed to pressure and got a new one still miss been able to fix it with a few spanners a fag paper and radio to set the timing
best wishes
frazer

 

[Blogwitch]

It was actually fitted with a Cheddar Puffin plant, which I still have somewhere in my shop, working perfectly (the engine that is), the boiler, after so many years I doubt would stand up to good scrutiny as it must be about 25 years old.

If I was to make one now it would be based around the production ones I used to make with one of Sandy's boilers.

I only have a paddler engine remaining now, which is staggeringly powerful by using the gears,

but it could easily be converted back to a vertical.

John

 

[alan23]

you will have to fit in a fairly large boiler and an engine a few inches further along,

 

[Shipdisturber]

The main reason I stated larger is otherwise your sailing year can easily be shortened by the weather.

With a small steamer, even a fairly small chop on the water can be very unforgiving, and I have seen a couple turn turtle.

My last steamer had a strong bow and was fairly heavy, being clad in 1/8" planks and based around the 4ft long Krick Victoria, the other members used to wait for me to get to the lake as it could easily break up the thin ice, allowing them to get in an afternoons sailing with their fragile electric scale models.

John

Now that is a nice looking boat! What you have there is along the lines I'm looking for. Can you recommend a good book on steam engines and boilers for a beginner like me.

 

[fcheslop]

Hi John, I have a soft spot for the marine oscillators and thanks for the pics she does look very nice
Do you intend building another boat ?
Sandys boilers are nice designs although Iv not built on of his myself Iv pinched a few ideas from them as we do

Concerning books I cannot think of many modern ones I would recommend
Stan Brays Marine steam book is available although Iv been told it riddled with errors
Building Small Boilers for Gas Firing by Alex Weiss is a good intro book and has upto date info and calculations and I would buy it again.My copy is a bit dog eared now literally the puppy chewed it
There are plenty of very old books available via T publishing K N Harris Boiler Making has become the bible although I would still get the Weiss book to cross reference
For a first steam launch my preference would be to keep it simple as in a oscillating engine either a water tube boiler or one of Sandys. A lot will depend on the size and shape of the hull
I hope that makes a little sense as I seem to be struggling at the moment
cheers

 

[Blogwitch]

Fraser,

I don't want to distract from Shipdisturber's inquiry unless what I am showing might help a little.

I don't have the room in my shop for making anything large, despite people coming over in the next month to help me clear it out so that I can get back to model engineering.

I am with you on oscillators, as far as I am concerned, if you want an easy sailing launch, that has to be the way to go. My Puffin engine sailed almost every weekend for over 10 years and never let me down. It has now been fully restored and is now in my collection, despite it being worth a fair amount of money.

The many I made were only done to buy new tooling for my shop, 15 vertical and 3 paddler engines. If and when I get back into my shop, I have a lot of projects to do and finish off, but the engines are fairly easy to make, and if someone wants me to do it, they would have to wait until I was ready.

BTW, they were based around this engine, bottom left, click on the picture to download the plans.

http://jpduval.free.fr/Plans_moteurs_vapeur_p1.htm

I just made it a lot easier to make and I put right a few design and positioning problems.

Another BTW, one of the easiest launches you could build is called PUFFIN MUFFIN. flat bottomed and can easily be scaled down 50% from it's 56" length. I made 2 steam plants for people who made the hull and they sailed perfectly, plus being flat bottomed, they can easily take the weight.


[URL="https://www.sarikhobbies.com/product/puffing-muffin-mm1405-steam-launch-plan/"][/URL]

John

 

[Blogwitch]

Puffin Muffin plans

https://www.sarikhobbies.com/product/puffing-muffin-mm1405-steam-launch-plan/

Build

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/modelsteam/puffin-muffin-show-and-tell-and-first-post-t81227.html

John

 

[Shipdisturber]

Great looking boat Blogwitch! The hull part I can work out no problem plans or not. The thing I'm looking for mainly is plans to scratch build a boiler and engine. One thing has me puzzled is do you reverse the engine or do you have to do it by means of a gear box? If it's a gear box then I could utilize a one way bearing with and electric motor for a quick reverse and not have to make a transmission.

 

[bouch]

I have a Midwest "Sequin" kit in my "future projects" pile. That's a 39" hull, so its right in your ballpark. I'm planning on putting a Ray Hasbrouck #7 engine in it. That engine is a twin engine, 3/8" bore x 1/2" stroke (IIRC). Since its a 2 cylinder, its self starting. The key thing this design has is that it can be reversed by throwing a lever 90 degrees, which is perfect for an RC servo. Ray also designed built-up crankshafts, which make them easier to build.

Ray passed away a few years ago, but his designs are available in book form from Village Press (also available on Amazon) Village press' web site is "undergoing maintenance" but here's the amazon link:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/0941653447/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

 

[Blogwitch]

For the motor, you are better off going with an oscillator as they usually have a control valve on them, giving you fwds/rev and rudder control with just a two channel set. Once you start to go for other twin cylinder ones with one that controls not the steam inlet but changes the timing on the engine, you are then required to have at least a 3 channel set and makes life a lot more difficult to control.

John

 

[fcheslop]

OK John
Sorry to have taken it from topic
cheers

 

[Shipdisturber]

OK John
Sorry to have taken it from topic
cheers

Don't be sorry your input was helpful too, gives me a better understanding of the level of maturity on this website.

What would be a good place for me to get building plans for the said engine and boiler. I have pulled wrenches for forty years as a heavy duty mechanic plus scratch build all my stuff. I have a lathe with lots of attachments so I can pretty much make almost anything. Hopefully this last bit gives you a better idea of what I may be able to do.

 

[Blogwitch]

S,

If you go down the commercial route for a boiler and engine I am sure you will take a sharp intake of breath, that is why a lot of us build, or used to build a lot of our own steam plants.

This is the one I bought many years ago

http://www.westbourne-model.co.uk/acatalog/copy_of_Stuart-Models.html

The cheapest of the commercial ones seem to come from France, but usually they weren't up to my expectations, mainly on the cylinder glands where the con rod goes through.

If you want to make your own plant, then the one I showed above gives a small but powerful engine, being a long stroke, it runs a lot slower as well, so using less steam if set up correctly.

For a boiler, then one of Sandy's ones will do. I got the plans from either here or Model Engine Maker. Bearing in mind that to fit that size, a 4ft boat is really required.

John

 

[Wolfie01]

Hi guys,
Don't know if anyone is after 3" diameter copper pipe, but my local scrap metal dealer has metres of the stuff.
Let me know if anyone is in need.

Added that because of johns comment. I've bought myself some as I nearly fainted at the prices in the UK 😨