Small gas torch

Discussion in 'General Engine Discussion' started by firebird, Oct 11, 2008.

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  1. Oct 11, 2008 #1

    firebird

    firebird

    firebird

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    Hi

    I've seen some small gas torches advertised, they are re-filled with cigarette lighter gas. Has anybody had any experience with them. Can they be used for silver soldering small parts together? I have a propane bottle and torch and oxy acet but both are a bit cumbersome when working on small parts

    Cheers

    Rich
     
  2. Oct 11, 2008 #2

    Stan

    Stan

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    It depends on how how big the flame is and how big the piece is that needs to be silver soldered. I bought one that is just a throwaway lighter in a case with an adjustable flame. I haven't taken it apart to see how it is constructed.

    The flame is about 3/8" long and 1/8" wide at the widest part of the cone. It burns at the flame temperature of the butane and will melt .031" silver solder on a very small part. For the size of part it can heat to soldering temperature, it would probably be better to use .015" silver solder.

    It is more of a tool for jewelery work than model engines but for those who make jewelery size model engines it would be great. Moving up in size, there is one that attaches to the top of the disposable butane tank (about 1" x 4") that would be of more use.
     
  3. Oct 11, 2008 #3

    Kludge

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    Hi, Rich,

    Define "small". :)

    Also, what kind of silver solder do you mean?

    My heat sources at present are a Smith mini-torch (currently Oxy/Acetylene but will be Oxy/Propane when I can get to the welding supply house) and a Weller Butane torch. Sometime in the near future, I'll be adding a Propane/Air mini-torch from Micro-Mark. (This doesn't include the alcohol lamp & blow tube for really small work.)

    All of them will get up to the required temperature required for most common silver solders (roughly 1400o) and, for very small items, can handle the much higher temperatures (around 2300o)required by jeweler's silver solder. Where the difference comes in is in how much is needed to heat the parts being soldered. My Weller can handle the really small pieces while the Propane/Air one should be able to manage the vast majority of the remainder which will leave the Smith for the "heavy lifting" (which, as you might tell, isn't all that heavy.)

    So, building a boiler - ain't gonna hack it. Doing fitting makeups for the tubing et al required - an excellent choice. Anything else ... give it a shot.

    Oh, and if you smoke, they make great windproof lighters. :D

    Best regards,

    Kludge (waiting for the coffee to brew)
     
  4. Oct 11, 2008 #4

    firebird

    firebird

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    Hi Kludge

    Small = silver soldering the nipples into 1/8 copper pipe, attaching parts less than 1/4 square, that kind of small.

    Cheers

    Rich
     
  5. Oct 11, 2008 #5

    rickharris

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    The lighter torches are really only for very small jobs. I most frequently use a standard DIY shop butane torch and if I need a lot of heat a standard gas and forced air torch.

    Silver soldering works well with propane and air from a small compressor. I have used a 12 volt car tire compressor in the past with a standard propane tank - The torch came from a jewellery supply house and provided a fine hot flame.

    Making an enclosed oven from fire bricks also helps keep the heat where it is needed.
     
  6. Oct 11, 2008 #6

    Kludge

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    Okay, this works. Not a lot of mass to carry the heat away (the major problem in this situation in most parts of the galaxy) and plenty of heat for the sort of solder you'll be using. Otherwise, it's Plan 9 a la Rick. :D

    BEst regards,

    Kludge
     
  7. Oct 11, 2008 #7

    jack404

    jack404

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    G'day Firbird

    i have one that refills from a butane lighter refill

    i use it a lot it has a good output if it is a bit heavy on the butane but i can get steel rod red hot in minutes
    ( 1/4" and 1/2 ") i use it for silver solder and light brazing even

    it will put out a blue flame 3" long for about 15 minutes before needing a refill and a 1" flame i have not used so long it needs a refill but guess 30 minutes.

    hope this helps

    [​IMG]

    cheers

    jack
     
  8. Oct 12, 2008 #8

    PTsideshow

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    Depending on the type and and job at hand some of the smaller newer torches can do a great job and be flexible enough that they can be used for other things to.
    [​IMG]
    The old standard prest-o-lite torch rig air /acetylene with assorted tips below
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    a newer style developed propane tank torch comes in two versions one for the small tanks and the fat boy tanks as they are calling them now and one set up for what they call the bulk or BBQ type tanks in the US.
    [​IMG]

    Here is a good source for assorted brands and styles of torches for modeling and jewelry/silersmithing work.
    http://www.kingsleynorth.com/skshop/search_results2.php?action=search&keys=&catID=214&Submit=+Search+ 10 pages of torches and lots of other stuff you never knew you needed till you saw it.
    The EZ torch is also sold as the shark brand torch.http://www.ottofrei.com/store/home.php?cat=1238

    The problem I have with the butane refillable torch I have. Is it seems to run out at the worst moment in the job no matter when you refill it.
     
  9. Oct 12, 2008 #9
    A photo, or even a link to what you are referring too, would be extremely helpfull, then you get a definite answer if it will do the job or not.


    regards greenie
     
  10. Oct 12, 2008 #10

    Hilmar

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    Hi Rich
    1/4 " Part but how long is the 1/8' pipe? That matters also
    Hilmar
     
  11. Oct 12, 2008 #11

    firebird

    firebird

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    Hi

    The type I have seen is the one posted by Jack above. I have seen them e-bay for about £5.00 so they are not that expensive. Maybe the only way to find out is to get one and give it a go. For the money they look pretty good.

    Cheers

    Rich
     
  12. Oct 12, 2008 #12

    IanN

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    Hi,

    For really small stuff the blowpipe is a very delicate tool.

    A reference has already been made to it but no pics yet, so I've uploaded some of mine:

    [​IMG]

    It is a bit clearer without my hand in the pic (the tube at the top of the pic is a cap to cover the wick when not in use):

    [​IMG]

    The body is full of wadding, the base unscrews to allow the wadding to be soaked with meths (alcohol). It gives a nice big (but cold) flame:

    [​IMG]

    Blow down the tube to get a little hot flame:

    [​IMG]

    My blowpipe is very old and of unknown make. It may have been home made - the top of the unit clearly show that it was made by brazing a large nut into the top of a tube:

    [​IMG]

    Ian.


     
  13. Oct 27, 2008 #13

    firebird

    firebird

    firebird

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    Hi

    The opportunity came my way to buy a small gas torch for £10.00 so I bought one along with a large refill can for £1.49.

    [​IMG]

    I held a couple of pieces of brass together as shown, dabbed a bit of flux on and placed a snippet of silver solder next to the joint.

    [​IMG]

    The heat was applied and very quickly the flux bubbled up and turned liquid then the silver solder melted and ran along the joint.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    So to answer my own question, yes they can be used to silver solder small parts together. A very useful bit of kit, well worth the money.

    Cheers

    Rich

     
  14. Oct 27, 2008 #14

    jack404

    jack404

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    but you got the nice coloured one!!

    you know what this means

    i gotta get a racing stripe

    good one rich

    cheers
     
  15. Oct 27, 2008 #15

    mklotz

    mklotz

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    If it won't work for your soldering/brazing jobs, you can always use it to make creme brulee. My wife has her own for just that task.
     
  16. Oct 27, 2008 #16

    firebird

    firebird

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    Hi

    The choice was orange or green, not much to choose between the two. I should be able to find it in the dark though. No cake making, I'll restrict my activities to soldering.

    Cheers

    Rich
     
  17. Oct 27, 2008 #17

    Tin Falcon

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    I have been wanting to get a smiths jewelers micro torch. the torch is $100-130 but the price of tanks is holding me back right now.
    Tin
     
  18. Oct 27, 2008 #18

    firebird

    firebird

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  19. Oct 27, 2008 #19

    jack404

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    Tin here tanks are
    $140 + a year rental plus the gas

    i would use less than half a tank a year ( $30 of gas last time i topped up for both!!!) and thats the tiny ones
    its a rort ( scam)


    GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

    jack
     
  20. Oct 28, 2008 #20

    bentprop

    bentprop

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    I have a torch/soldering iron like Tin shows,Portasol brand,but I mainly use it for soldering.The main reason being I can't seem to get the thing really full of gas.It never seems to take more than half a fill,before the can starts "blowing off".I also have one of the cheap pencil torch type things,but that's more use for heatshrink tubing than anything else.It does get quite hot,but again always runs out of puff at the critical moment.
    For brazing and silver soldering anything I mostly use an LPG torch kit and a 5kg bbq tank.This does pretty much everything I need.I think I've refilled the tank twice in about 12 years,and since it requires re-testing at the next fill,I'll just buy a new tank.The test costs more than the (filled)new tank ???
    I got 2 different tip sizes with the torch,and very seldom need to use the larger one.I can vary the flame from about 1/2" up to 2",which is useful for most work.
    I'd love to get one of the little oxy/acet outfits that Micromark sells,but it can't be shipped,and it's not available here :(.
    As for full size oxy acet,This has now been priced completely out of range for the handyman.
     

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