silver soldering
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compound driver 2
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Hi
Easyflow 2 for boilers, carries cadmium so use in a sensible way. Silverflow 55 can be used as a replacement for Easyflow2 advantage is its cadmium free.
I now use AG303 for boilers, no more breathing cadmium for me! The cadmium helps the solder flow but thats part of the job the silver plays.
For general silver soldering go with silverflow2 (ask for AG303)
Whatever you use it needs to go onto a very clean surface. On copper pickle the ciopper in either sulphuric or acetic acid. With ferouse use a file or wire wool DONT use emery cloth it contains grease and the emery imbeds in the metal.
On copper boilers nothing but silver solder will do. With the exception of assembling large crown stays using siphbronze. On the crown stays this is ok due to the size of the fillet formed.
Mix your flux using water and a small drop of dish soap, or mix with metalated spirit and be aware that the meth will burn off very fast. Dont use spit unless you want to add grease and oil to the joint.
Either way make no mistake cadmium WILL kill you so dont breath it in.
cheers kevin
Easyflow 2 for boilers, carries cadmium so use in a sensible way. Silverflow 55 can be used as a replacement for Easyflow2 advantage is its cadmium free.
I now use AG303 for boilers, no more breathing cadmium for me! The cadmium helps the solder flow but thats part of the job the silver plays.
For general silver soldering go with silverflow2 (ask for AG303)
Whatever you use it needs to go onto a very clean surface. On copper pickle the ciopper in either sulphuric or acetic acid. With ferouse use a file or wire wool DONT use emery cloth it contains grease and the emery imbeds in the metal.
On copper boilers nothing but silver solder will do. With the exception of assembling large crown stays using siphbronze. On the crown stays this is ok due to the size of the fillet formed.
Mix your flux using water and a small drop of dish soap, or mix with metalated spirit and be aware that the meth will burn off very fast. Dont use spit unless you want to add grease and oil to the joint.
Either way make no mistake cadmium WILL kill you so dont breath it in.
cheers kevin
i think you mean AG103? AG303 is easyflo and AG103 is silver flo 55
Kevin, any comment on how much harder it is to use that easyflo? when everything is clean and well fluxed the easyflo wicks in so nicely - same with the silverflo?
compound driver 2
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Hi
Oops I typed that lot just after getting out of the pit leaving a warm wife and going into a cold shed.
The cadmium free seems to flow almost as well as the Easyflo2 as long as the joint is tight and theres plenty of heat. I did four reasonably big gauge 1 boilers using silverflo with out any problems a month back.
If asked I would say easyflo2 is a better solder but silverflo is so close its not worth breathing in the cadmium.
cheers Kevin
Oops I typed that lot just after getting out of the pit leaving a warm wife and going into a cold shed.
The cadmium free seems to flow almost as well as the Easyflo2 as long as the joint is tight and theres plenty of heat. I did four reasonably big gauge 1 boilers using silverflo with out any problems a month back.
If asked I would say easyflo2 is a better solder but silverflo is so close its not worth breathing in the cadmium.
cheers Kevin
No offense here but I wanted to say that spit has a lot of enzymes and acids in it ,and can be used a a flux by itself, there are no fats in it, it also contains h2o2 (hydrogen peroxide), when heated it's an extremely good cleaning agent! , I'm sure you're right about it not being suitable for boilers because you have a lot of experience with them, I didn't want to mislead anyone!. The Romans used to use borax mixed with spit to solder jewelry and I'm pretty sure that most flux today is just borax and ammonium chloride, For SMALL stuff there is no need to make a paste, it can just make a mess!, anyway this is just my experience, just do some trial runs and see for yourselves!
rickharris
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AFAI can tell all silver solder and brazing fluxes are variations on Borax mixes. Not sure about the spit mind!
A good pickle for copper brass etc. is battery acid (about 37% sulphuric acid), dilute it 7 to 1 with distiled water. It's weak, but will still clean copper in a few minutes, wear googles anyway, don't risk your eye's. The best part is after you have used it for a while it turns blue, at this point you can dip clean steel in it and it will plate out a thin copper finish, good for marking out with.
With easyflow 45 silver solder the best gap is .003", any less than .0015 and the solder won't wick into the joint, capillary action can't take place with that thin a gap. Any more than .005" and the strength of the joint will start to diminish, the larger the gap the faster the strength falls off. If you take an automatic punch, space marks around the parts you want to join, it will make raised dimples about .003", then lightly clamp together and solder away. If you don't fasten the parts together before soldering when the flux melts the parts will move on you at the worst time. Good luck, soldering is all about practice.
With easyflow 45 silver solder the best gap is .003", any less than .0015 and the solder won't wick into the joint, capillary action can't take place with that thin a gap. Any more than .005" and the strength of the joint will start to diminish, the larger the gap the faster the strength falls off. If you take an automatic punch, space marks around the parts you want to join, it will make raised dimples about .003", then lightly clamp together and solder away. If you don't fasten the parts together before soldering when the flux melts the parts will move on you at the worst time. Good luck, soldering is all about practice.
Hi
Ok I got a problem now. My wife has just broken the little ring off her best silver necklace. With all that new soldering kit you have bought surely you can fix my necklace she said. The question is can I do something that small and delicate with the kit I have. Urgent help needed here gentleman. If I can fix it big brownie points will be earned which equates to more shop time. If I fail I'll never hear the end of it. Any tips will be greatly appreciated.
Cheers
Ok I got a problem now. My wife has just broken the little ring off her best silver necklace. With all that new soldering kit you have bought surely you can fix my necklace she said. The question is can I do something that small and delicate with the kit I have. Urgent help needed here gentleman. If I can fix it big brownie points will be earned which equates to more shop time. If I fail I'll never hear the end of it. Any tips will be greatly appreciated.
Cheers
J. Tranter
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Is that 7 parts water or acid?Loose nut said:
John T.
firebird said:
you secretly take it to a jewellers but let her believe what a clever chap you are and how usefull all that shop stuff is. Seriously though, I wouldn't make that your first SS attempt, there's a very good chance the end of the necklace will end up a molten hunk of silver. think in terms of tryin to braze brass with a bronze filler
J. Tranter said:
Sorry, seven parts water to one part battery acid. The end result is around 3% acid, weak but will still clean the metal quickly and burn your cloths and burn your eyes and dry your skin out so be careful. It will also clean the flux off after soldering, be careful dunking hot metal (not advised), the splatter and steam is weak acid. Best to let it cool off first and do a little scrubbing.
firebird said:
Been there and done that. You need to get 1/64 th Dia. solder and a very small tip with a very small flame, lot of flux. The secret to good silver soldering is the use of the proper flux. The flux at first will turn clear and gooey and many people and the solder at this point and make a mess. If you have the right flux that matches the solder after it goes gooey it will turn liquid almost watery and the base metal will appear to become cleaner, this is the point to touch the solder to the work. The proper flux is made to liquefy just before the melting point of the silver solder.
At this point cross your fingers and if you screw it up "prepare to kiss thine ass goodbye" a woman scorned, you know the rest.
B
Bogstandard
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Gents,
Using burning acid is good, gets the job done a lot faster.
But what has to be realised is the safety issue here.
A lot of members won't have the luxury of a sealed chamber for a workshop, where only the owner can get in.
Surely citric acid is a much safer recommendation, a lot slower, but won't involve a lot of heartache if the kids or animals manage to get into it.
What is best? A couple of minutes in a potentially lethal mixture, or an hour in a solution that in theory you can drink without coming to too much harm.
If your silver soldering is that good, there should be hardly any residues left to clean off anyway.
John
Using burning acid is good, gets the job done a lot faster.
But what has to be realised is the safety issue here.
A lot of members won't have the luxury of a sealed chamber for a workshop, where only the owner can get in.
Surely citric acid is a much safer recommendation, a lot slower, but won't involve a lot of heartache if the kids or animals manage to get into it.
What is best? A couple of minutes in a potentially lethal mixture, or an hour in a solution that in theory you can drink without coming to too much harm.
If your silver soldering is that good, there should be hardly any residues left to clean off anyway.
John
J. Tranter
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Where can you get citric acid here in the states?
John T.
John T.
B
Bogstandard
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In the UK it is used for all sorts.
Cooking, home beer brewing (we have some weird hobbies), drug taking. Pharmacies should sell it, some specialist food stores might have stock, but the usual place is the home brew shop.
Mix up to a saturated mixture (it usually comes in powder form), pop it into a plastic container with a sealed lid (a good use for those grotty old Tupperware containers that are never used). Drop your bits in when needed, take out when clean, a rub with a finger will show when it is clean underneath the muck. Don't worry if you forget about it being in there, it won't get 'eaten' away.
It lasts for ages.
John
Cooking, home beer brewing (we have some weird hobbies), drug taking. Pharmacies should sell it, some specialist food stores might have stock, but the usual place is the home brew shop.
Mix up to a saturated mixture (it usually comes in powder form), pop it into a plastic container with a sealed lid (a good use for those grotty old Tupperware containers that are never used). Drop your bits in when needed, take out when clean, a rub with a finger will show when it is clean underneath the muck. Don't worry if you forget about it being in there, it won't get 'eaten' away.
It lasts for ages.
John
compound driver 2
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Hi
On copper boilers I always use sulphuric acid at about 25% ish. I have a tank of citric but only use that for the last pickle and for descaling boilers each year.
Battery acid at 3% would work but in all honesty would take as long as citric acid to work. Sulphuric can be had reasonably easily in the UK and the US. We used it in America for making anodizing baths and for cleaning prior to silver soldering or brazing. In the UK its harder to find but people like Blackgates will sell it as will Reeves (check that one).
What ever you do DO NOT drop hot metal into acid be it sulphuric or citric if you want to keep your skin and luings! You also stand a good chance of shocking the joint and ending up with a brittle solder.
Cheers Kevin
On copper boilers I always use sulphuric acid at about 25% ish. I have a tank of citric but only use that for the last pickle and for descaling boilers each year.
Battery acid at 3% would work but in all honesty would take as long as citric acid to work. Sulphuric can be had reasonably easily in the UK and the US. We used it in America for making anodizing baths and for cleaning prior to silver soldering or brazing. In the UK its harder to find but people like Blackgates will sell it as will Reeves (check that one).
What ever you do DO NOT drop hot metal into acid be it sulphuric or citric if you want to keep your skin and luings! You also stand a good chance of shocking the joint and ending up with a brittle solder.
Cheers Kevin
Nothing wrong has been said in this post, I asked Boggie a while ago about the citric acid bath and he explained in some post ,I can't remember which, how to use it and the fact that it's hard to get hold of in the UK because it's somehow used by druggies, it maybe the same in the US! but I found some yesterday in an Indian shop, it's used for making pickles and such, it's also used in beer and wine making, as is ascorbic acid (vitamin C that costs about $1 a kilo in brewing stores here in Italy instead of $10 for 100 grams in the pharmacy!), my father-in-law is an industrial chemist and informed me that the safest acid for cleaning copper based alloys (apart from citric, like John says maybe safest of all!) is phosphoric acid 30-40% by volume, used to correct ph imbalances in soil also, you just dunk the soldered metal in for 10 seconds or so and it works a treat!, it's still an acid so you should always be careful! but it's much more stable and safer than H2SO4!.
Also remember when diluting acids always add the acid to the water and not the other way round!
Giles
Also remember when diluting acids always add the acid to the water and not the other way round!
Giles
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