silver solder

[goldstar31]

Wearing a bowler hat and a jazzy waistcoat ex my late wife's obsession with all things saxophone etc, may I suggest that some of the 'insurmountable problems' in this topic are already solved.

My wife had a Ferrees musical instrument repair catalogue in which all these problems were listed and solutions found.

Might I commend its pages as an interesting source of professional information for lesser mortals- like me?

 

[Chiptosser]

I am sorry that I missed your suggestion to Gus to thin the material.

Lets just say, I was reiterating it, to others who also may have also missed your suggestion for thinning material.

 

[Blogwitch]

Chip,

Here in the UK you can get silver solder in a lot of different shapes and sizes.
I bought 20ft long by 3" wide of very thin sheet a couple of years back, that should see me out.

Photobucket is down at this time otherwise I could have shown how I flatten out soft solder and use it INSIDE of a joint, which I use when I don't think I can get enough penetration over a large surface area from the edges to join parts together for machining.

I wasn't pointing a finger at all, just mentioning that if people don't read a whole post, and inwardly digest, lots of useful information can be missed.

Hopefully, this weekend I will get into my shop and make a short vid showing just how easy silver soldering can be done by almost anyone.

John

 

[moerman]

I would like to learn more about "raising the dottle" or other ways of cleaning the joint. Do you mean to clean while the solder is molten? Or is it just a way of saying to clean thoroughly in advance?

 

[goldstar31]

I would like to learn more about "raising the dottle" or other ways of cleaning the joint. Do you mean to clean while the solder is molten? Or is it just a way of saying to clean thoroughly in advance?

So far, I think most will agree that with increasing practice, it will be possible to physically 'stick' two bits of similar or dissimilar metals together with silver solder. The real test is whether the joint is able to stand steam and possibly superheated steam. Reams of comments have filled the pages of books and whatever about 'boiler testing'. Whether we like it or not, boilers will leak- they might even follow what used to happen in full size- and blow up. The policy is to eradicate leaks as far as is possible.
In the joining process, we have obviously used the best materials and the best possible practices to attempt to not introduce both non metal.

I think that sort of introduces the subject. If we do a dummy test of our competences, and cut through our joint, we will find that it is not quite textbook.
From this, we can and should try to remove as many things which cause leaks as we can. Despite fluxes, cleanliness and whatever, we can try to remove as much rubbish that we introduce into the weld pool.

If we keep the weld pool molten, we can 'fish' the problems out with either a pin pointed torch flame which literally digs and lifts the air and inclusions to the surface.

To answer the question yet to be posed, can this be done with a blow lamp?
Well, I can't do it and I am something called or was called a Certified Welder or a holder of a City and Guilds Certificate in Motor Vehicle Restoration-m amongst a heap of equally useless qualifications.

I can or could - with a pointed flame lift the impurities which gives rise to most of the leaks which are our lot. With a broad -any old heating source, the answer from me- is no.- or you might be lucky. y

Does this make other views topsy turvy? Well make your boiler, fill it with water, double your pressure- under water- of course and judge the result.

Back to trying to dealing with jet lag, zillion bean counting entries in far more difficult problems.

Cheers

Norman

 

[Coomba]

Just curious, these boilers you guys reference to. What are their working pressure?

 

[goldstar31]

Just curious, these boilers you guys reference to. What are their working pressure?

I picked my much battered copy of LBSC's book on 'Maisie' as the easiest to hand- and one which gives somewhat dated but non the less useful instructions to beginners. 'His' test of Maisie's boiler was 180psi.Not, I emphasise , the working pressure.

This is not the answer that you are seeking but 'Curly' Lawrence went on to discuss the needed strengths and bending and bulging of the copper sheets and tubes that were necessary and expected to get his little loco to safely perform.

As an aide memoire, might I mention -yet again- that I retired almost 32 years ago- not from making pennies from boiler making but counting beans?

Consequently, might I humbly suggest that you physically seek out Live Steamers who will give a far clearer picture of the current world of model steam.

Laughingly, I always wonder what dear old George Stephenson would make of all this internet stuff, bearing in mind that he could successfully design and run a full size series of steam locomotives- but couldn't read or write.
If we follow the converse of my argument-- say no more:hDe:

Norman

 

[bazmak]

When making model steam locos the only thing not to scale is pressure

 

[Coomba]

When making model steam locos the only thing not to scale is pressure

I looked up the working pressure of a steam locomotive, and it said starting out 200-250 psi. High pressure loco. begin at 350 and reach up to 1500 psi. That's wild. What pressure do you run in yours?

 

[bazmak]

Most of the steam locos I was familiar with ie Gresley pacifics etc worked on 180 to 250 psi working most of the main lines of the UK
Models however work at lower pressures but not scaled down
My last model was Hielen Lassie a 3.5g pacific.If I recall the boiler had to tested
to 200psi and worked at half that.Most small oscilating models can work
between 10 and 50psi. Just my thoughts rule of thumb

 

[goldstar31]

I looked up the working pressure of a steam locomotive, and it said starting out 200-250 psi. High pressure loco. begin at 350 and reach up to 1500 psi. That's wild. What pressure do you run in yours?

I think that the questions are now being aimed beyond the genuine seeking of practical help.

As far as I know, Britain has one 'new' locomotive and this was at a cost well beyond the purses of the average modellers. There is one associate of mine who is actually making one- himself. I am advised- keeping my distance.

In our earlier discussions, I think that it was on the metacentric heights and subsequent dangers from icing of tugboats in the Baltic, I fell asleep at 3AM. My only regret was that it wasn't earlier

'Nuff said

Norman

 

[Coomba]

Most of the steam locos I was familiar with ie Gresley pacifics etc worked on 180 to 250 psi working most of the main lines of the UK
Models however work at lower pressures but not scaled down
My last model was Hielen Lassie a 3.5g pacific.If I recall the boiler had to tested
to 200psi and worked at half that.Most small oscilating models can work
between 10 and 50psi. Just my thoughts rule of thumb

bazmak
Thanks, for a straight answer.

 

[Jasonb]

The limiting factor with most small boilers is that they are usually made from copper so you don't see many above 100psi working pressure. Model traction engines in the larger scales tend to have steel boilers and will have a working pressure of 200psi or a little more, this also gives better compounding as there is more expansion of the steam over a greater pressure range.

 

[Owen]

Golden rules of all soldering is clenthliness, make sure both parts are shiny clean. Mix the flux into a paste and apply to the joint PRIOR to fitting the two pieces together, do not use to much flux, just a little on a tooth pick is sufficient, remember where there is flux the solder will run. You do not want to see the silver solder after you have completed the joint, remember silver solders strength is in its cappiliary action, it will flow where the flux is. A little is far better that pouring silver onto the joint. That would imply to brazing not silver soldering or soft soldering for that matter. Last point is the cost of the silver solder rod, the percentage of silver determines the price, I always use 50% silver content ans a 1.2mm rod. Hope this helps?