silver solder

[blockmanjohn]

Hi Blogwitch,
Thanks for the expert advice and your generous offer. I am going to order my own tub of Tenacity 5 flux, and 0.5 mm wire. It should last the rest of my life.
Thanks again, John.

 

[gbritnell]

Well stated John!
Explaining things sometimes becomes a tangential issue. Well if I say this then I have to add that and if I add that then I will have to add more.
With the basics explained it's surely a matter of practice to get good joints. Once a person learns the routine it just becomes second nature.
gbritnell

 

[gus]

Soft Solder v/s Silver Solder.
I was making Tubal Cain's mini steam boilers. Seen my welders doing silver brazing which gave me the wrong impression that any layman could easily do it.
I thought I could get away using canned LPG Gas and got nowhere. Alternative was use soft solder which I thought I could get away. While making steam and running the mini oscillating engine,the water level went low and the soft solder gave way. My airconditioning fishy mate gave me some good advice. Bought Mapp Gas Torch and from there my silver brazing happened and improved and boiler joints no longer gave way. Takes time to master.
Gas Fired Tractor Engine was made 5 years ago. Pardon the grime.

 

[gus]

John,

If you are having trouble sourcing what you require, I am quite willing to send you some wire and a great flux (tenacity 5) in the post, but it might take a while from UK to USA.

John

Currently struggling 1mm Silver Brazing Rods. Please advise source for 0.5mm
Rods. Just Silver brazed a 4mm tube into a pump casing. 1mm rod is hard to cut and place on job. Quite happy with the results. Trust all is well there!!

 

[Philipintexas]

GUS: Does the layout fluid keep the SS from sticking? Or, did you clean it before soldering?

 

[Blogwitch]

Gus, or anyone else wanting to order what I showed.

Go to here and then download their catalogue (free), then go down to PDF page 121. Also while there, download their order form.

http://www.blackgates.co.uk/catalogue.html

You will soon see the silverflo 55 wire and the Tenacity flux.

Also, have a look through the catalogue as there just might be something else that you need, they stock most things relevant to model engineering.

Gus, I would send you some, but unfortunately, customs in countries in the far east have a bad habit of thinking the small packets of very fine white flux are something else, and open the package, then when they fail to find what they want, they just dump the whole lot in the bin, this is assumed, as I have twice tried to send a package like this, one to Thailand and one to Hong Kong, both failed to arrive. Australia, US and South Africa where OK.

John

BTW Gus, get a BIG hammer, and flatten out your silver solder rod until it is a few thou thick, then you should be able to cut small pieces off it to place around the joint, I also use this method with soft solder, saves putting too much on. It also helps reduce stress.

 

[bazmak]

Although cut and place is often used it is not the be all and end all
Get the job to temp ,dip the end of the 1mm rod in flux,flux the area and touch the rod to the job the solder should just flow round.I very rarely use cut and place

 

[Blogwitch]

Baz,

Everyone to their own methods and I wouldn't want to force anyone to follow my lead.

It is just that I, for many many years have found that what you call cut and place perfectly adequate for 99% of what I get up to. The only time full rods were used was on large jobs such as a boiler, where even then, all the stays were soldered in by putting rings on them. The only time we used rods was when we did the foundation ring and main boiler seams.

How could you use a rod on these, which I used to make for a commercial model locomotive company, if I had used a rod, it would have just been a big blob of solder.

It also allows several parts to be soldered at the same time, just place the solder on the joint, and sweep down with the blowtorch, as you do one, it starts to heat up the next one to it. Usually all done in less than a minute.

A little time in the pickle and a rub with wire wool to remove the flux and job done.

No excess solder anywhere, plus NO WASTE. I keep every tiny little offcut of the wire or sheet in the knowledge that it will complete a joint sometime in the future. It is just too expensive to throw or file away because excess was used.

John

 

[gus]

Although cut and place is often used it is not the be all and end all
Get the job to temp ,dip the end of the 1mm rod in flux,flux the area and touch the rod to the job the solder should just flow round.I very rarely use cut and place

I get good results with one very small silver on the job piece. Have tried dipping the rod into the job and I get a big glob. Sigh.:wall:

For bigger jobs I do OK with rod dipping.

 

[gus]

Baz,

Everyone to their own methods and I wouldn't want to force anyone to follow my lead.

It is just that I, for many many years have found that what you call cut and place perfectly adequate for 99% of what I get up to. The only time full rods were used was on large jobs such as a boiler, where even then, all the stays were soldered in by putting rings on them. The only time we used rods was when we did the foundation ring and main boiler seams.

How could you use a rod on these, which I used to make for a commercial model locomotive company, if I had used a rod, it would have just been a big blob of solder.

It also allows several parts to be soldered at the same time, just place the solder on the joint, and sweep down with the blowtorch, as you do one, it starts to heat up the next one to it. Usually all done in less than a minute.

A little time in the pickle and a rub with wire wool to remove the flux and job done.

No excess solder anywhere, plus NO WASTE. I keep every tiny little offcut of the wire or sheet in the knowledge that it will complete a joint sometime in the future. It is just too expensive to throw or file away because excess was used.

John

Hi John,

Would be great to have you as a neighbour. So much to learn from you.
The pump failed.Now making another with ball bearings. Preliminary trial was good with ball bearings inside pump housing. The small DC motor did spin the shaft.

 

[Blogwitch]

So sorry about the pump failure Gus, you WILL get it right with a little perseverance.

As you know, the more experience you get, the less scrap goes into the recycle bin.
Everything is a steep learning curve, and even now, because of people asking questions and me replying to them, my experiences are starting to return, as I lost most of them due to some treatment for PTSD I had a while back.

So keep asking questions, and maybe I will remember a lot more and get back into my shop a lot quicker as at this time, it would be no use being my neighbour as with most of the stuff in my shop, I have either forgotten what they are for or even how to use them correctly. If I was to do even a small machining job, I would have to spend an hour trying to remember how to go about it.

Keep up the good work.

John

 

[Wizard69]

So sorry about the pump failure Gus, you WILL get it right with a little perseverance.

As you know, the more experience you get, the less scrap goes into the recycle bin.
Everything is a steep learning curve, and even now, because of people asking questions and me replying to them, my experiences are starting to return, as I lost most of them due to some treatment for PTSD I had a while back.

So keep asking questions, and maybe I will remember a lot more and get back into my shop a lot quicker as at this time, it would be no use being my neighbour as with most of the stuff in my shop, I have either forgotten what they are for or even how to use them correctly. If I was to do even a small machining job, I would have to spend an hour trying to remember how to go about it.

Keep up the good work.

John

I have a simple question for you, what did you mean by pickle? I assume it is submersion in some sort of cleaning fluid or acid. Your work comes out looking extremely nice by the way, thanks for posting.

 

[Blogwitch]

Hi Wiz,

If you go up to post 20 I think, the one with the twisted pipe, after that picture it tells you exactly what I use to clean before soldering, and a bit further down, after I have finished soldering and how to clan things up.

John

 

[blockmanjohn]

Is it safe to assume that the citric acid solution can be used over again until it no longer cleans the flux? Should I just keep it in a capped jar until I need it gain?
Thanks, John.

 

[goldstar31]

Of course, brown sauce is also satisfactory.

Mind you, I rarely use any concoction. Sort of old school. It follows all those air conditioning and fridge units which abound all over the world. Do they 'clean up'? No way, life is too short.

However a hint about small items? Why not use silver solder paste and restrict the run of melt with an HB pencil or Tippex to keep things neat? My late wife taught me on that.

Norman

 

[Blogwitch]

John,

I use my citric acid pickle until it is no longer effective. Depending how much you use it it could be a few months or a couple of years.

There are commercial pickles available from engineering suppliers, and they do work a lot quicker, but the failing point for me is that you have to wear safety equipment with it, gloves, glasses and sealed tanks. The thing about citric acid is that unless you have an open wound, where it would make your eyes water if you got some in it, it is totally safe to handle and have knocking about the shop, and can be disposed of down the drain without any complicated neutralizing treatment.

John

 

[Chiptosser]

For those of you that want different thicknesses of sliver solder.

The material is malleable.
Use a small hammer, and pound it to the thickness that you need. You can then use scissors to cut it to width and length needed.
I have done this for many projects.

Good luck to all.

 

[goldstar31]

For those of you that want different thicknesses of silver solder.

The material is malleable.
Use a small hammer, and pound it to the thickness that you need. You can then use scissors to cut it to width and length needed.
I have done this for many projects.

Good luck to all.

More or less agreed. I use what is 'to hand' and cut with a pair of snips which were originally used to cut orthodontic or piano wire. They also crop up on my Mig welder.

What hasn't been mentioned- and I think that it is worth a mention is that once the silver solder has melted on the job, it loses silver to the job and becomes more difficult to re-melt- should the need arise.

The other point that perhaps is worth mentioning is the necessity to find a method of 'raising the dottle' which few will readily interpret. However, it refers to bringing out the dirt and inclusions in the weld pool. Dottle is Northumbrian for the nasty mess in the bottom of a smoker's pipe.

I suspect that I learned about it at a tender age in the blacksmith's shop when my father was brazing or gas welding. Usually it involves a circular motion to bring up the stuff which will cause weakness or porosity or both.

Some of the older home locomotive boilermakers etc suggest using a stainless steel little wire brush. I've got one, came with an arc welder but never used it .

Whatever the choice, it is pretty well what Henry Bessemer did when he blew air into the blast furnace.:fan:

I'll leave it at that

Norman

 

[Blogwitch]

Chip,

It has already been mentioned in my posts above.

BTW Gus, get a BIG hammer, and flatten out your silver solder rod until it is a few thou thick, then you should be able to cut small pieces off it to place around the joint, I also use this method with soft solder, saves putting too much on. It also helps reduce stress

Norman,

Same again.

Where many people go wrong is that they don't put enough heat into the job and the solder just won't 'flash' into the joint. This then causes a problem, the solder you have just heated up and turned into a ball on the surface of the job has change properties, the melting temperature will have risen and will require even more heat and flux to get it to remelt.

That is why I read the posts completely rather than just skimming through them

John

 

[Chiptosser]

Blog- You mentioned sheet stock!, unless someone else mention hammering their round into flat.

Some people my not think to thin their material down, by hammering. Sheet stock Silver solder is not a common item, readily available off the shelf.

I am just making it know, that people can make their own thin material to the thickness of choice, without purchasing it.